"Satch and Josh": Silly question
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"Satch and Josh": Silly question
Why is the Basie/Peterson CD called "Satch and Josh"? Who are Satch and Josh? And where's Louis Armstrong?
The wonder that is google says:
"Count Basie encounters Oscar Peterson…here’s a improvisational masterpiece between two of the hippest, swinginest piano players ever. It is my supreme pleasure to discuss one of their best and least known CDs, Satch & Josh. The CD’s title comes from an anecdote that Basie used to share about two of the greatest baseball players of all time, Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson. Perhaps you have never heard of Satch and Josh. That’s probably because they played in the Negro Leagues in an era before Jackie Robinson and integrated baseball. Satch was the coolest, baddest pitcher of his time (picture Kevin Brown) and Josh was the greatest homerun hitter ever (picture Mark McGuire). Basie’s real-life anecdote recounts one of their famous pitcher-batter duels. Josh had approached Satch the day before a game and asked him to pitch easy since Josh’s mother was going to be watching in the stands. Satch agreed and then, on game day, gave Josh a knowing smile and proceeded to strike him out on three blazing fastballs.
In this CD, Basie humbly refers to Peterson as "Satch" and to himself as "Josh". If you listen carefully to track #4, Burning, you can hear Basie suddenly blurt out "Satch" during a Peterson solo with probably the same kind of amazement that the real Josh had watching Satch pitch. However, in this recording, Basie doesn’t "strike out". Each musical number on this CD plays out like a round in a well fought match between equal contenders. Both Basie and Peterson each get in their fair share of musical jabs, punches and blows. Both get "knocked out", and both come out winners. "
http://www.swingorama.com/review.html
"Count Basie encounters Oscar Peterson…here’s a improvisational masterpiece between two of the hippest, swinginest piano players ever. It is my supreme pleasure to discuss one of their best and least known CDs, Satch & Josh. The CD’s title comes from an anecdote that Basie used to share about two of the greatest baseball players of all time, Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson. Perhaps you have never heard of Satch and Josh. That’s probably because they played in the Negro Leagues in an era before Jackie Robinson and integrated baseball. Satch was the coolest, baddest pitcher of his time (picture Kevin Brown) and Josh was the greatest homerun hitter ever (picture Mark McGuire). Basie’s real-life anecdote recounts one of their famous pitcher-batter duels. Josh had approached Satch the day before a game and asked him to pitch easy since Josh’s mother was going to be watching in the stands. Satch agreed and then, on game day, gave Josh a knowing smile and proceeded to strike him out on three blazing fastballs.
In this CD, Basie humbly refers to Peterson as "Satch" and to himself as "Josh". If you listen carefully to track #4, Burning, you can hear Basie suddenly blurt out "Satch" during a Peterson solo with probably the same kind of amazement that the real Josh had watching Satch pitch. However, in this recording, Basie doesn’t "strike out". Each musical number on this CD plays out like a round in a well fought match between equal contenders. Both Basie and Peterson each get in their fair share of musical jabs, punches and blows. Both get "knocked out", and both come out winners. "
http://www.swingorama.com/review.html
Before he was too well known? He was superstar that played for the World Champion Cleveland Indians in 1948. That was his rookie year in the big league at the age of 37. He was so popular that all of the games started were sold out. He was well known as the most entertaining and best negro league pitcher for at least 10 years prior to 1948. Both blacks and whites would come out and watch him pitch in the negro leagues. In the negro leagues him startin would mean at least a 2 fold increase in attendance.djstarr wrote:semi-hijack warning: My Dad played baseball when he was young and got to hang out with Satchel Paige one day, before Satchel was too well known; Satchel autographed a baseball for him, and like an idiot my Dad went and played ball with it - he really wishes now he still had it!
Ha! That's what I get for posting too hastily - I was trying my best to come up with a good excuse for my Dad - I just talked with him; he said that he saw Satchel Paige at an exhibition game in Ardmore, Oklahoma (my Dad's home town). Satchel spent two hours talking with him since my Dad had read everything about him and was asking him all kinds of questions. He was 13 or 14 at the time.Roy wrote:Before he was too well known? He was superstar that played for the World Champion Cleveland Indians in 1948. That was his rookie year in the big league at the age of 37. He was so popular that all of the games started were sold out. He was well known as the most entertaining and best negro league pitcher for at least 10 years prior to 1948. Both blacks and whites would come out and watch him pitch in the negro leagues. In the negro leagues him startin would mean at least a 2 fold increase in attendance.
So I asked him why he played with the baseball - and his reply was "I'm just a dumb Okie".....
He also said that Josh Gibson was a great catcher; I'm not sure if Satch and Josh ever played for the same team, but if they did that's an even nicer analogy -- the connection as part of the "battery" (for you non-baseball fans, that's what the pitcher/catcher combo is called).
They played for a few years together for the Pittsburg Crawfords around 1940. They also played in over 100 exibition games of negro league all-stars vs. the MLB all stars. The negro league players won 60% of these all-star games
Josh Gibson was the dominant negro league player. He was known as the black Babe Ruth. It is said he hit 815 home runs in the negro leagues. People who saw him play said he was every bit as good as Babe Ruth and could hit the ball much further.
Josh Gibson is a tragic figure in the negro leagues, he was obsessed with playing in the Big leagues because he knew he was as good as Ruth. It was thought at the time that Gibson would be the player to break the color barrier since he was the best player. In 1946 Branch Ricky chose Jackie Robinson to break the color barrier because he was much younger. Robinson was 26, Gibson was 35. A year later when Robinson got his shot at the majors Gibson got terminally ill and died a few years later never playing a single game in the major leagues.
Josh Gibson was the dominant negro league player. He was known as the black Babe Ruth. It is said he hit 815 home runs in the negro leagues. People who saw him play said he was every bit as good as Babe Ruth and could hit the ball much further.
Josh Gibson is a tragic figure in the negro leagues, he was obsessed with playing in the Big leagues because he knew he was as good as Ruth. It was thought at the time that Gibson would be the player to break the color barrier since he was the best player. In 1946 Branch Ricky chose Jackie Robinson to break the color barrier because he was much younger. Robinson was 26, Gibson was 35. A year later when Robinson got his shot at the majors Gibson got terminally ill and died a few years later never playing a single game in the major leagues.
Powerful bat
Gibson the best home run hitter in Negro Leagues
By Tom Singer/MLB.com
Josh Gibson, considered one of the best catchers in baseball history, once hit 84 home runs in a season.
Born: Dec. 11, 1911, Buena Vista, Ga.
Died: Jan. 10, 1947, Kansas City, MO.
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Hall of Fame induction: 1972
Ray Dandridge on Josh Gibson: 56k | 300k
Mention most icons of the Negro Leagues, and the burning issue is how baseball's color line denied them acknowledgment alongside their Major League peers. But Josh Gibson paid a steeper price: Recognition as perhaps the greatest player of all time.
The Georgia-born, Pittsburgh-reared muscular catcher was that good. His drives were that majestic. His arm was that strong, his legs that fleet.
The numbers Gibson posted as the mainstay, alternately, of both the Pittsburgh Crawfords and Homestead Grays read like fiction: a .354 average and 962 homers throughout a 17-season career, with single-season highs of .517 and 84. Even conceding the unreliability of stat-keeping in the Negro Leagues, many of those numbers are corroborated by the official Baseball Encyclopedia.
The numbers merely eulogize a man who made indelible impressions on everyone who saw him play. Negro Leaguers who played with and against him from 1929 through 1946 revered him. Big leaguers who tried to get him out -- and there were many, as postseason barnstorming series between Major and Negro Leaguers were big attractions, and Gibson hit a collective .412 in these games -- were awed by him.
"I played with Willie Mays and against Hank Aaron," Monte Irvin once said. "They were tremendous players, but they were no Josh Gibson. You saw him hit, and you took your hat off.
"It makes me sad to talk about Josh, because he didn't get to play in the Major Leagues, and when you tell people how great he was, they think you're exaggerating."
In an allegorical sense, the color line was drawn right at Gibson's feet. In the early '40s, Dodgers Manager Leo Durocher was reprimanded by Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis for musing about how nice it would be to be able to jot Gibson's name on his lineup card. According to hearsay, Pittsburgh Pirates owner Bill Benswanger actually signed Gibson to a Major League contract in 1943 that was vetoed by Landis.
But while Gibson couldn't play in the Major Leagues, he could play in Major League parks, and the big houses nurtured his legend. He preceded Mickey Mantle as the only two men to smoke a ball out of Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C. He also is credited with being the only one to ever hit one out of Yankee Stadium, an undocumented blow ostensibly struck in September 1930 off Connie Rector of the Lincoln Giants.
Gibson, himself, always pooh-poohed the notion he'd actually hit a ball out of The House that Ruth Built, maintaining that he'd only reached the center-field bullpen. He was a modest man and a playful one. Gibson would needle opposing hitters by throwing fistfuls of dirt on their shoes, and goad pitchers by rolling up his sleeves to make his biceps bulge.
Josh Gibson, second from left, helped the Pittsburgh Crawfords win the Negro National League pennant in 1935 and 1936.
Mostly, though, Gibson was a sad man, going through a short life under the weight of many burdens. The padlocked Majors wasn't even the heaviest.
Gibson never fully recovered from an early-career trauma, the death in 1920 of his 17-year-old wife Helen while giving birth to his twin children. Unable to bear the haunting memory of Helen he saw in the twins, he left them in the care of his in-laws and tried to lose himself in baseball, and in an out-of-control lifestyle away from the diamond.
But through the binges and the dry-outs, and despite ailing knees that had kept him out of World War II service, Gibson kept hitting the covers off the ball.
In 1943, the source of recurring headaches was diagnosed as a brain tumor. Gibson understood the gravity of that condition, but didn't flinch.
"Death ain't nothing," he said. "You can't tell me nothing about death. Death ain't nothing but a fastball on the outside corner."
On a January evening four years later, having sought refuge from the pounding in his head in a darkened movie theater, Gibson was found unconscious in his seat when the lights came on. He was taken to his mother's house, where he passed away early the next morning -- at 35 -- three months before Jackie Robinson kicked down the door to the Majors.
For nearly three decades, he lay in an unmarked grave in Allegheny Cemetery. Then-Commissioner Bowie Kuhn and a former Pittsburgh Crawford teammate chipped in in 1975 to erect a headstone that says simply, "Legendary Baseball Player."
In 1972, Gibson became one of the first Negro League veterans to be elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame.
When The Sporting News chose The 20th Century's 100 Greatest Players in 2000, Josh Gibson was No. 18.
Gibson the best home run hitter in Negro Leagues
By Tom Singer/MLB.com
Josh Gibson, considered one of the best catchers in baseball history, once hit 84 home runs in a season.
Born: Dec. 11, 1911, Buena Vista, Ga.
Died: Jan. 10, 1947, Kansas City, MO.
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Hall of Fame induction: 1972
Ray Dandridge on Josh Gibson: 56k | 300k
Mention most icons of the Negro Leagues, and the burning issue is how baseball's color line denied them acknowledgment alongside their Major League peers. But Josh Gibson paid a steeper price: Recognition as perhaps the greatest player of all time.
The Georgia-born, Pittsburgh-reared muscular catcher was that good. His drives were that majestic. His arm was that strong, his legs that fleet.
The numbers Gibson posted as the mainstay, alternately, of both the Pittsburgh Crawfords and Homestead Grays read like fiction: a .354 average and 962 homers throughout a 17-season career, with single-season highs of .517 and 84. Even conceding the unreliability of stat-keeping in the Negro Leagues, many of those numbers are corroborated by the official Baseball Encyclopedia.
The numbers merely eulogize a man who made indelible impressions on everyone who saw him play. Negro Leaguers who played with and against him from 1929 through 1946 revered him. Big leaguers who tried to get him out -- and there were many, as postseason barnstorming series between Major and Negro Leaguers were big attractions, and Gibson hit a collective .412 in these games -- were awed by him.
"I played with Willie Mays and against Hank Aaron," Monte Irvin once said. "They were tremendous players, but they were no Josh Gibson. You saw him hit, and you took your hat off.
"It makes me sad to talk about Josh, because he didn't get to play in the Major Leagues, and when you tell people how great he was, they think you're exaggerating."
In an allegorical sense, the color line was drawn right at Gibson's feet. In the early '40s, Dodgers Manager Leo Durocher was reprimanded by Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis for musing about how nice it would be to be able to jot Gibson's name on his lineup card. According to hearsay, Pittsburgh Pirates owner Bill Benswanger actually signed Gibson to a Major League contract in 1943 that was vetoed by Landis.
But while Gibson couldn't play in the Major Leagues, he could play in Major League parks, and the big houses nurtured his legend. He preceded Mickey Mantle as the only two men to smoke a ball out of Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C. He also is credited with being the only one to ever hit one out of Yankee Stadium, an undocumented blow ostensibly struck in September 1930 off Connie Rector of the Lincoln Giants.
Gibson, himself, always pooh-poohed the notion he'd actually hit a ball out of The House that Ruth Built, maintaining that he'd only reached the center-field bullpen. He was a modest man and a playful one. Gibson would needle opposing hitters by throwing fistfuls of dirt on their shoes, and goad pitchers by rolling up his sleeves to make his biceps bulge.
Josh Gibson, second from left, helped the Pittsburgh Crawfords win the Negro National League pennant in 1935 and 1936.
Mostly, though, Gibson was a sad man, going through a short life under the weight of many burdens. The padlocked Majors wasn't even the heaviest.
Gibson never fully recovered from an early-career trauma, the death in 1920 of his 17-year-old wife Helen while giving birth to his twin children. Unable to bear the haunting memory of Helen he saw in the twins, he left them in the care of his in-laws and tried to lose himself in baseball, and in an out-of-control lifestyle away from the diamond.
But through the binges and the dry-outs, and despite ailing knees that had kept him out of World War II service, Gibson kept hitting the covers off the ball.
In 1943, the source of recurring headaches was diagnosed as a brain tumor. Gibson understood the gravity of that condition, but didn't flinch.
"Death ain't nothing," he said. "You can't tell me nothing about death. Death ain't nothing but a fastball on the outside corner."
On a January evening four years later, having sought refuge from the pounding in his head in a darkened movie theater, Gibson was found unconscious in his seat when the lights came on. He was taken to his mother's house, where he passed away early the next morning -- at 35 -- three months before Jackie Robinson kicked down the door to the Majors.
For nearly three decades, he lay in an unmarked grave in Allegheny Cemetery. Then-Commissioner Bowie Kuhn and a former Pittsburgh Crawford teammate chipped in in 1975 to erect a headstone that says simply, "Legendary Baseball Player."
In 1972, Gibson became one of the first Negro League veterans to be elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame.
When The Sporting News chose The 20th Century's 100 Greatest Players in 2000, Josh Gibson was No. 18.
Paige turner
Paige was greatest pitcher ever.
By Jonathan Mayo/MLB.com
Satchel Paige played 14 seasons for the Kansas City Monarchs between 1935 and 1955.
Leroy Robert "Satchel" Paige
Born: July 7, 1906, Mobile, Alabama
Died: June 8, 1982, Kansas City, Missouri
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Hall of Fame induction: 1971
It's hard to say what people remember most about Satchel Paige: his incredible abilities on the pitcher's mound, or his charisma and talent as a storyteller. Either way, Paige was one of the most entertaining players in baseball history.
Paige was born into a large family -- one of twelve. As an adolescent, he was sent to the Industrial School for Negro Children after getting caught for shoplifting and truancy. It was at the Industrial School that Paige learned the art of pitching. At 18, he became a member of the semipro Mobile Tigers.
He made his pro debut in 1926 with the Chattanooga Black Lookouts in the Negro Southern League. Between 1928 and 1932, he played for the Birmingham Black Barons, the Baltimore Black Sox, the Nashville Elite Giants , the Cleveland Cubs, and finally the Pittsburgh Crawfords. Teaming up with future Hall of Famers Oscar Charleston, Cool Papa Bell, Judy Johnson and Josh Gibson, Paige helped the Crawfords win the league championship in 1935.
Paige stayed in Pittsburgh until 1937, when he went to play in the Dominican Republic. When he came back, his contract was sold to the Newark Eagles. Paige refused to report, instead going to Mexico, where he came down with a sore arm that nearly ended his career.
He rehabilitated his arm by playing first and pitching short stints for the Kansas City Monarchs' B-Team. Eventually, he returned to good health and became the Monarch's top pitcher, leading them to the World Series in 1942 and 1946.
A year after Jackie Robinson integrated the Major Leagues in 1947, Paige signed with the Cleveland Indians on his 42nd birthday, becoming the oldest rookie in baseball. He went 6-1 in his first season and helped the Indians win their first World Series in 28 years.
He followed owner Bill Veeck, who had originally signed him in Cleveland, to the St. Louis Browns in 1951. In 1952, Paige won 12 games and became the oldest player selected to an All-Star team. He pitched one more season with the Browns before seemingly retiring.
Always the showman, Paige returned to baseball in 1965 with the Kansas City Athletics at the age of 59. He pitched three innings. Not surprisingly, he didn't give up a run.
He became the first player from the Negro Leagues to be selected to the Hall of Fame in 1971. At his acceptance, he said that in the Negro Leagues, "there were many Satchels and many Joshes," referring to Josh Gibson.
Dizzy Dean once said about Paige, "If Satch and I was pitching on the same team, we'd clinch the pennant by the fourth of July and go fishing until World Series time."
Paige died in 1982 from emphysema shortly after the dedication of a renovated park in Kansas City, called the Satchel Paige Memorial Stadium. He was 75.
Or at least that's how old it's believed he was. Even though it's now widely accepted he was born in 1906, there was uncertainty about his age for most of his life. It became part of his mystique and persona. His autobiography, after all, was titled, "Maybe I'll Pitch Forever."
If his actual age is a mystery, his nickname isn't. Growing up, Paige used to carry suitcases at the train station in Mobile to make money. He put together a pole and rope to enable him to carry three or four bags at a time, causing friends to call him Satchel. The name stuck.
What year was Satchel Paige born? Nobody knows for sure, but the bottom line is that he was one of the best pitchers ever.
Paige's personality and reputation as the ultimate showman may be the biggest legacy he left behind. He frequently would call in his outfielders before an inning and then proceed to strike out the side. Paige had his own philosophy, which included tenets such as, "Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you."
The nicknames for his pitches were wonderfully descriptive. He had the "two-hump blooper," a changeup, "Little Tom," a medium speed fastball, "Long Tom," the hard stuff; and, of course, "the hesitation pitch."
Paige was the Negro Leagues' top draw for years, combining his ability to put on a show with extraordinary raw talents to keep the turnstiles moving. His success against Major Leaguers such as Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby and Bob Feller helped raise awareness that African American could play in the Major Leagues.
Jonathan Mayo is a senior writer for MLB.com based in Pittsburgh. He can be reached at jonathan.mayo@mlb.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
Paige was greatest pitcher ever.
By Jonathan Mayo/MLB.com
Satchel Paige played 14 seasons for the Kansas City Monarchs between 1935 and 1955.
Leroy Robert "Satchel" Paige
Born: July 7, 1906, Mobile, Alabama
Died: June 8, 1982, Kansas City, Missouri
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Hall of Fame induction: 1971
It's hard to say what people remember most about Satchel Paige: his incredible abilities on the pitcher's mound, or his charisma and talent as a storyteller. Either way, Paige was one of the most entertaining players in baseball history.
Paige was born into a large family -- one of twelve. As an adolescent, he was sent to the Industrial School for Negro Children after getting caught for shoplifting and truancy. It was at the Industrial School that Paige learned the art of pitching. At 18, he became a member of the semipro Mobile Tigers.
He made his pro debut in 1926 with the Chattanooga Black Lookouts in the Negro Southern League. Between 1928 and 1932, he played for the Birmingham Black Barons, the Baltimore Black Sox, the Nashville Elite Giants , the Cleveland Cubs, and finally the Pittsburgh Crawfords. Teaming up with future Hall of Famers Oscar Charleston, Cool Papa Bell, Judy Johnson and Josh Gibson, Paige helped the Crawfords win the league championship in 1935.
Paige stayed in Pittsburgh until 1937, when he went to play in the Dominican Republic. When he came back, his contract was sold to the Newark Eagles. Paige refused to report, instead going to Mexico, where he came down with a sore arm that nearly ended his career.
He rehabilitated his arm by playing first and pitching short stints for the Kansas City Monarchs' B-Team. Eventually, he returned to good health and became the Monarch's top pitcher, leading them to the World Series in 1942 and 1946.
A year after Jackie Robinson integrated the Major Leagues in 1947, Paige signed with the Cleveland Indians on his 42nd birthday, becoming the oldest rookie in baseball. He went 6-1 in his first season and helped the Indians win their first World Series in 28 years.
He followed owner Bill Veeck, who had originally signed him in Cleveland, to the St. Louis Browns in 1951. In 1952, Paige won 12 games and became the oldest player selected to an All-Star team. He pitched one more season with the Browns before seemingly retiring.
Always the showman, Paige returned to baseball in 1965 with the Kansas City Athletics at the age of 59. He pitched three innings. Not surprisingly, he didn't give up a run.
He became the first player from the Negro Leagues to be selected to the Hall of Fame in 1971. At his acceptance, he said that in the Negro Leagues, "there were many Satchels and many Joshes," referring to Josh Gibson.
Dizzy Dean once said about Paige, "If Satch and I was pitching on the same team, we'd clinch the pennant by the fourth of July and go fishing until World Series time."
Paige died in 1982 from emphysema shortly after the dedication of a renovated park in Kansas City, called the Satchel Paige Memorial Stadium. He was 75.
Or at least that's how old it's believed he was. Even though it's now widely accepted he was born in 1906, there was uncertainty about his age for most of his life. It became part of his mystique and persona. His autobiography, after all, was titled, "Maybe I'll Pitch Forever."
If his actual age is a mystery, his nickname isn't. Growing up, Paige used to carry suitcases at the train station in Mobile to make money. He put together a pole and rope to enable him to carry three or four bags at a time, causing friends to call him Satchel. The name stuck.
What year was Satchel Paige born? Nobody knows for sure, but the bottom line is that he was one of the best pitchers ever.
Paige's personality and reputation as the ultimate showman may be the biggest legacy he left behind. He frequently would call in his outfielders before an inning and then proceed to strike out the side. Paige had his own philosophy, which included tenets such as, "Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you."
The nicknames for his pitches were wonderfully descriptive. He had the "two-hump blooper," a changeup, "Little Tom," a medium speed fastball, "Long Tom," the hard stuff; and, of course, "the hesitation pitch."
Paige was the Negro Leagues' top draw for years, combining his ability to put on a show with extraordinary raw talents to keep the turnstiles moving. His success against Major Leaguers such as Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby and Bob Feller helped raise awareness that African American could play in the Major Leagues.
Jonathan Mayo is a senior writer for MLB.com based in Pittsburgh. He can be reached at jonathan.mayo@mlb.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.