Identification of Soloists and Other Band Members

[CafeSavoy]

This was posted on the Canadian board,

back in the day, dancers would learn ALL of the players from their favorite bands and be able to pick out their solos on records just by listening.

and it made me wonder how many people can identify all the members of swing era bands from their playing. it sounds like a cool idea, but it seems like it would take lots of research. you'd have to first figure out who was in the band when, and then have some clue for telling one member of a section from another. although if the band is Ellington, it'll probably be easier since you can just go to a meeing of the Duke Ellington Society and take notes.

[Platypus]

Heck, the music rags had columns about the sidemen, who was "traded" to which band. Kinda like baseball players today.

[julius]

"dancers" is a nebulous term. I doubt all or even a significant fraction of the dancers in the swing era could identify soloists, but I am guessing that if you dance to the same band week after week for years you are going to be able to identify them. So in general I'd say Whitey's members would have been able to identify soloists of the bands that played for them, but you know, who really needs more than a few days to identify Chick Webb?!

But, well, pure speculation.

[falty411]

but you know, who really needs more than a few days to identify Chick Webb?!

i have been asked by a fellow DJ

"who was that playing drums for Ella?"

*sigh*

[Lindy Bomb]

What does it really matter if you can identify who played with what band, in which year, with what singer, in which venues, etc ad nauseum...? If you play good music, it's good music. Period. Knowing who's playing third trumpet on this song, recorded in this place, on this date is just extra. Geez, kinda reminds me of old guys sitting around arguing about baseball stats from a game played 50 years ago.

[Soupbone]

Every hobby has its trainspotters.

[sonofvu]

My dad could identify Cootie Williams and maybe Ben Webster but not too many others.

[Lawrence]

"dancers" is a nebulous term. I doubt all or even a significant fraction of the dancers in the swing era could identify soloists, but I am guessing that if you dance to the same band week after week for years you are going to be able to identify them. So in general I'd say Whitey's members would have been able to identify soloists of the bands that played for them, but you know, who really needs more than a few days to identify Chick Webb?!

Exactly; I was going to post the same thing.

It is valueable to develop your appreciation of the music. Learning how to identify musical "voices" requires you to really listen to the solo work instead of just respond to the rhythm and a few solo inflections here and there. It is not necessary to do so, but it is a way to delve deeper if you want.

It is also good to give the REAL musicians props instead of figureheads like, for instance, Lucky Millinder, who didn't play an instrument, didn't compose or arrange songs, but instead just stood in front, sang, and took credit for the band's work.

[Yakov]

Yeah, except Dizzy Gillespie said Lucky was the best bandleader-conductor he'd ever seen. (see below)

You could say the same thing about George Gee, Leonard Bernstein, Jimmie Lunceford, Paul Whiteman, or the conductor of your high-school marching band... but you'd be wrong. Just because a bandleader doesn't play doesn't mean he isn't an essential force to the music. He doesn't just "stand there."

The "identification" thing is based on the sound and style. You don't have to be a musical genius to do it, but you need an ear and a lot of listening. Anyone can tell the difference between Ellington, Basie, and Fats Waller. That's Cat Anderson playing "screaming" trumpet on those late-Ellington records. etc. It helps to listen to live recordings where they sometimes announce the soloists. Just like you can tell a vocalist's voice (who would confuse Ella with Billie?), every jazz musician has an identifiable "voice."

-yakov.

15 aug edit: Here is the direct quote from Joop Visser's "Apollo Jump" (Proper Records) liner notes.

Lucky Millinder could not read music, nor could he play any instrument. Millinder was not the only bandleader with little music knowledge; Cab Calloway, Jimmie Lunceford, Tiny Bradshaw, Willie Bryant, Baron Lee and Bardu Ali, who was in front of Chick Webb's band, were all bandleaders who waved a baton in front of a band, jumped around and maybe sang a song.

Yet Lucky Millinder was a catalyst who could bring out the very best in many musicians he empolyed, and with his tremendous eye and ear for talent he hired an impressive range of top-notch instrumentalists and singers during his twenty years as a bandleader. Lucky also had such a retentive ear for music, that reputedly he could conducet the hardest score after one hearing. Millinder was also a popular and personable employer. Dizzy Gillespie, a musician who certainly knows, called him "The best conductor I've ever seen."

[djstarr]

That's Cat Anderson playing "screaming" trumpet on those late-Ellington records. etc.

Yes, his trumpet is pretty distinctive; I love listening to Festival Junction just to hear the solo stuff at the end.

I heard a live version of "C Jam Blues" played recently, and the DJ had it listed as Ellington, but didn't have the album name. I thought it was one of the Ellington Newport Albums, since it is live and has the "screaming" trumpet solo on the end of the song (which reminded me of Festival Junction a lot), but I'm having a hard time finding it. It's a great high energy version of the song. Any clues?

[Shorty Dave]

although if the band is Ellington, it'll probably be easier since you can just go to a meeing of the Duke Ellington Society and take notes.

LOL!!! You are so not kidding on that one...those guys amaze me!

[Yakov]

from benny green's liner notes to "satch and josh":

"...(S)ome listeners might feel that guidance is required as to where Basie ends and Peterson begins. I am disinclined to provide this guidance, largely because I have a sneaking suspicion that those in need of it have no business to be listening in the first place."

OUCH!