Favorite "Groove" albums? ("Postwar?")

[Greg Avakian]

A good place to look for albums, although some bios are a little dated:
http://lindygroove.com/djs.htm


Other ideas to get you started:

Fifties Ella, Satch, Peterson, Basie.
Female vocals like Nina Simone, Laverne Butler, Ernestine Anderson, Mary Stallings, Rosemary Clooney, Chris Connor, Betty Carter, Barbera Morrison, Della Reese, Blossom Deary, Diana Krall, Sarh Vaughn, Shirley horn, Betty Roche, etc.
Popular trios like Aron Bell, Ray Brown, Gene Harris/Three sounds, Junior Mance, Monty Alexander, Bobby Timmons, etc.
Male vocalists like Kevin Mahogany, Jimmy Witherspoon, Ernie Andrews, Eddie Vinson, Wynnonie Harris (Sp.?), Bill Henderson, Joe Williams, Joe Liggins, Nat King Cole, etc.

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The westie and wiggle remarks are are one reason why people are tired of posting about this stuff. I can certainly WCS to lots of swing era music that is not classifiable as groove by any stretch of the imagination.
Sadly, "wiggle-hoppers" exist in every genre; probaly salsa dancers complain about"Wiggleros" or something . This, to me, is a connection issue and is almost musically irrelevent at this point (although a few years ago that might have been a valid cliche...).

[Lawrence]

There's nothing wrong with creating terms for you own usage, but you can't expect that the usage will be universal. Especially for a term where many people have their own definitions; for example, Lawrence, who has his own specific definition. It's like someone asking you to help them find their ideal woman, you have no idea what they're looking for until they tell you more.

Just to clarify, I'm trying to give definition to the popularly-used term that matches its use, not trying to push it into a pigeon hole that does not fit the usage of the term.

The more we listen, the finer the distinctions become. To my ear and understanding, there is not ONE type of "swing rhythm," no less one type of "swing music." The definition I put forth clarifies how "groove" rhythm is just different from "classic" rhythm, despite their similarities.

The only criticism of the definition I've put forth has been that a definition is unnecessary, which belies the fact that we keep debating it without coming close to an answer, and then digress into tangents claiming the term doesn't exist; there's no such thing as "groove; but "groove" DJs suck, and don't play REAL swing; not so, they're just responding to what dancers want and allowing the dance to evolve; you mean "devolve" so as to kill Lindy Hop; no, I mean evolve and grow and remain fresh; you mean dilute and die; damn classic DJ; damn groover....

I submit that this is NOT just a hi-fi/lo-fi debate or an Old Testament vs. New Testament debate. It's about a sub-genre of swing music with so much bass that people familiar and friendly to classic-swing rhythms (not just lo-fi, but a sharper beat) don't like it (or don't "get it"), and people familiar and friendly with pop music after 1972 DO like.

Finally, defining the term could ultimately get non-groovers to understand what it is about "groove" music that we like, and get "groove-oriented" fans to understand why classic dancers/DJs dig "classic" swing music. Once they understand the difference, we can think about and appreciate and the benefits of each, and we MIGHT be able to progress beyond dogmatic claims and endless dick-slapping contests.

[djstarr]

Finally, defining the term could ultimately get non-groovers to understand what it is about "groove" music that we like, and get "groove-oriented" fans to understand why classic dancers/DJs dig "classic" swing music. Once they understand the difference, we can think about and appreciate and the benefits of each, and we MIGHT be able to progress beyond dogmatic claims and endless dick-slapping contests.

Nice post Lawrence; the more I listen to classic stuff the more I like it; I definitely dance differently to it. I'm still struggling with quantifying the difference - I think it does lie in the rhythm section, and being neither a drummer nor a bass player it is difficult for me to describe the difference I hear and feel.

btw, I missed my invitation to the "dick-slapping" contest - sounds fun

[funkyfreak]

btw, I missed my invitation to the "dick-slapping" contest - sounds fun

You'd think there'd be a lot more female DJs if word of this sort of stuff got around...

-FF