Copyright Issues: Recording Old Material for New Albums

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dogpossum
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Copyright Issues: Recording Old Material for New Albums

#1 Post by dogpossum » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:27 pm

I was wondering what the copyright issues surrounding releasing this sort of CD are? Especially if you're selling it... I'm guessing things would vary depending on the country, but any anecdotes?

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#2 Post by Robert Cullen » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:02 am

...
Last edited by Robert Cullen on Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr Awesomer
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#3 Post by Mr Awesomer » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:46 pm

Robert Cullen wrote:Hi Sam, could you please start a new thread discussing copyright issues and keep this thread on topic. The topic being what kind of recording technique do we as DJs and dancers prefer for a CD with Bennie Goodman (second half of the thirties) songs. Thanks.
Now that it has it's own thread, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Reuben Brown
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#4 Post by Robert Cullen » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:38 am

Hi Reuben and Sam, in the Netherlands we have an organization that acts as an intermediate for copyright claims: http://www.bumastemra.nl/en-US/Home.htm. From what I read on their web-site I guess it will be most likely that we have to pay them since it states: "Remuneration is also not required if you use music by a composer or lyricist who has been dead for more than 70 years". I think that the composers we will be using are not dead for such a long time yet. I gues that in the US and Australia something similar must exist like BUMA Stemra. I do not know if there the same rule applies. I am not responsible for this part of the CD project, but given the fact that the CD will be published via an official record label and I heard that it will also be sold via iTunes worldwide I guess they have got the copy right issues well taken care off. As for my own experience with the topic I have to pay BUMA Stemra 110 Euro per year for the usage of music for my amateur dance troupe and there they do not even ask what kind of music you are using. You just have to pay or else... The remarkable thing about that last point is that they found us. A small group of people in a small town doing a dance that is virtually unknown in the Netherlands. So I guess we have to take care of the copyright issue in the proper way, because I am sure they will find us when we want to sell a CD worldwide. And then again one of the people working on this CD also worked with the Beau Hunks, that recorded music by o.a. Raymond Scott (http://www.bastamusic.com/CatalogueDeta ... 1&IDCat=15). So I guess he will also take care of the fact that we will not do anything illegal. I guess you also might want to talk to Jonathan Stout and Dean Mora on this issue. They should know. So these are my thoughts, what are yours?

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#5 Post by penguin » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:29 am

The equivalent Australian organisation is APRA (who deal with licensing fees for the copyright in the lyrics and the score - there is another organisation, the PPCA, that performs an equivalent function for the copyright in the recordings).

These are the sorts of issues that would be resolved by music publishers - so it only becomes a problem for a band when self-publishing. It's my understanding that you have to pay a licensing fee for recording cover versions. You also need to seek permission of the copyright holder to alter the lyrics and the arrangement - which is very common in jazz - so I'm assuming that would involve plenty of letter writing to the large record labels (who own most of the copyright in old jazz recordings - eg. Sony owns Columbia, CBS and Okeh and RCA Victor - Univeral owns Decca and Verve).

Anyone with more insight feel free to correct me.

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#6 Post by Haydn » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:41 am

Robert Cullen wrote:Hi Reuben and Sam, in the Netherlands we have an organization that acts as an intermediate for copyright claims: http://www.bumastemra.nl/en-US/Home.htm. From what I read on their web-site I guess it will be most likely that we have to pay them since it states: "Remuneration is also not required if you use music by a composer or lyricist who has been dead for more than 70 years". I think that the composers we will be using are not dead for such a long time yet.
I think the 70 year limit is European copyright law - as you say, it lasts for 70 years after the composer's death. I'm assuming that the copyright passes to the composer's family on their death. Perhaps this also applies to arrangers? For example, if you wanted to record a 1939 arrangement of a song written in 1925, would this be copyright of both the composer's AND the arranger's descendants or estate? I believe the composers of most swing era music didn't die until the second half of the 20th century, which means most music will be protected by copyright for some time yet.

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#7 Post by Mr Awesomer » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:33 pm

I have no thoughts on the matter since I will never need to address the issue, but it's something that I've always been curious about. I'd love to hear what Stout, Douglas and others had to go through to get the U.S. perspective.
Reuben Brown
Southern California

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#8 Post by lipi » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:05 pm

Mr Awesomer wrote:I have no thoughts on the matter since I will never need to address the issue, but it's something that I've always been curious about. I'd love to hear what Stout, Douglas and others had to go through to get the U.S. perspective.
didn't you have to do it for the "live at the lindy binge" cd?

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#9 Post by Mr Awesomer » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:26 pm

lipi wrote:didn't you have to do it for the "live at the lindy binge" cd?
I didn't work on that aspect of it. I was just a member of the team that put the event on, and the one with the website to promote the CD via. I'd be curious how that was handled as well.
Reuben Brown
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kitkat
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#10 Post by kitkat » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:52 pm

I think there's a web site or two you log into, make the request, pay money by credit card, & wait for a reply. Or something like that.

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#11 Post by Toon Town Dave » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:36 pm

I can speak to my understanding of what happens in Canada. I think the rules here are similar to but not identical to the U.S. equivalent.

There are two rights to consider: performance and mechanical. Performance would be performing a composition. The owner of a copyrighted composition automatically gets performing rights. Others would have to pay a performance royalty to SOCAN (the Canadian equivalent of ASCAP).

We have a couple of bodies that claim to represent mechanical rights, from my experience and what I've heard from some lawyer types, they don't have much power and only in limited situations.

In general, the right to produce and sell a CD requires an individual agreement with the copyright owner of each composition. If the performer and composer are different, then contracts with both would be required. Since many copyrights are owned by record labels/producers, they'd be the ones you negotiate with and may have standard rates.

I just found a nicely written synopsis of various royalties.

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#12 Post by dogpossum » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:51 pm

Thanks for the replies.

This issue is kind of in my brainz atm because there's been some talk of a CD featuring live music from a recent Australia dance event being released... I was just curious about bands' experiences with this stuff in other countries. I think this sort of live CD is a really great idea, but I was wondering if people had/do found/find it a discouraging process to deal with copyright, etc.

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#13 Post by caab » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:36 pm

Are you asking about releasing a CD like this overseas or releasing it in the US or a combination of the two?

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#14 Post by kitkat » Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:04 pm

I know of a US-based band that recorded one of its performances at a swing dance, and could easily burn CDs of the tracks at home if necessary, but has not released it on iTunes and such places where one can easily be caught for releasing. The reason is that they don't think the recording would make enough to be worth paying rights fees for.

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