SwingDJs

Advanced dancers can obviously dance to more music than beginners.
So what are your favourite songs for beginners, especially for teaching?

The only thread I found so far is this one:
http://www.swingdjs.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=625
which contains a pretty nice list covering about 30 Minutes.

I've also a contribution (albeit I just occasionally drop in as teacher so far):
Lisa Ekdahl - Vem Vet - En Samling Sanger
Indigo Swing - Violent Love - All Aboard!
Indigo Swing - Regular Joe - All Aboard!
Seem to go very well with beginners (in lindy hop, that is).

Feel free to annotate your recommendations with dancing styles. Requirements differ, obviously. Full CD recommendations are also appreciated, although compilations usually more focus on being fun for experienced dancers (e.g. the Swingin' Swanee compilations are really good)

Lisa Ekdahl - Vem Vet - En Samling Sanger
Indigo Swing - Violent Love - All Aboard!
Indigo Swing - Regular Joe - All Aboard!
-------------------------------------------------

Welcome, mr. e -

Why wouldn't you be using real Swing music for your Swing dance lessons?

Perhaps he has a limited selection of music? Perhaps more modern music has a more obvious beat for beginners to follow? C'mon John, cut the new guy some slack and let's be a little more constructive here.

Here's parts of my lindy teaching list: (sorted by bpm)
Bill King - Let The Good Times Roll
Roy Byrd - Been Foolin' Around
Louis Armstrong - On The Sunny Side of the Street
Benny Godoman - Why Don't You Do Right
Harry Betts - Strictly Instrumental
Sam Cooke - Shake Rattle and Roll
Bobby Darin - Beyond The Sea
The Big Band Trio - Straighten Up and Fly Right
Glenn Miller - Little Brown Jug
Big Time Operator - Are You Hep To The Jive
Dizzy Gillespie - Oop Bop Sh'Bam
Jonathan Stout - Lester's Bebop Boogie
Thelonious Monk - Five Spot Blues
Duke Ellington - Midriff
Indigo Swing - Pink Cadillac
Girls from Mars - Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen
Lionel Hampton - Jumpin' with Jarvis
Swing Kids Sountrack - Jitterbug Boogie
The Cats and the Fiddle - Stomp, Stomp
Bob Crosby - King Porter Stomp
Count Basie - Roll 'em Pete

For teaching, I generally try to pick music with simple obvious rhythms and instruments/vocals, and I try to mix up the genres (I've left off some of the neo swing selections for the sake of not making some of you guys cringe, but I stand by my assertion that the stuff is good for teaching beginners because it makes for a good metronome and is generally more palatable to a newcomer's ears).

Eyeball wrote:Why wouldn't you be using real Swing music for your Swing dance lessons?

Because it's about a beginners dancing class, and not a swing music class. As long as the music is good for dancing it's fine. I will of course also use some of the classics like "sunny side of the street".

In my experience - and I started just two years ago myself - you need some time to really value much the older stuff. It took me over a year to really appreciate Django Reinhardts Minor Swing, for example. At some point I guess I considered that song pretty much undanceable. Now I just love dancing Balboa to it.

For songs to be well suited for teaching, there is other stuff to pay attention to. It starts with sound quality that should work on most sound systems, since you will often have a worse system. Also it makes it easier for beginners when the sound is clear. It shouldn't be overly complex so it's easier to hear the rhythm. Much of the "real swing" stuff is with large orchestras, there is not much neo-swing stuff of that complexity.
Also I listed stuff where I figured people might not already know. Things like "sunny side of the street" and ellas stuff probably everybody in this forum knows, I'm not so sure about "Vem Vet".
Blues music can also be very good for swing beginners, since it usually is slower and simpler than most of the "real" swing music.
When people are a bit confident in dancing, they'll themselves get into the classic stuff, and in intermediate levels you can then do musicality classes and all that with the more complex stuff.

Thanks Surreal for his list, these were the kind of recommendations I was looking for. I'm definitely all in for a mixture of classic and neo stuff.

I agree with Surreal and Mr.E

You don't want anything too complex or "musical", nothing to fast or too slow (a window of 120-150BPM depending on what they're working on getting up to 170 if you want to "speed" things up). The music needs to be clear (so old scratchies are out) and not contain any crazy rhythms (so no tap routines, speed changes, odd back-beats or that kind of stuff) and the rhythym needs to be strong so that the dancers don't have to listen too hard for it (which is why jump blues and neo-swing are popular). Familiarity also helps (which is why very very popular songs and artists and new stuff, e.g. Michael Buble work).

When you go over this list and really get to it, you narrow down the list of artists and recordings that are out there. It's biased towards newer stuff but there's a ton of fantastic old stuff there for beginners (like slim and slam, fats waller, ella, and some Basie, the Hamp and Benny Goodman)

Solomon Douglas has a liston his website that he uses.

I disagree with you guys, but best of luck to you both/all.

He! You promised us a detailed answer!
Come on. Swing dancers know that there is no right or wrong, just different styles. So please share your style!

mr. e wrote:

Eyeball wrote:Why wouldn't you be using real Swing music for your Swing dance lessons?

Because it's about a beginners dancing class, and not a swing music class. As long as the music is good for dancing it's fine. I will of course also use some of the classics like "sunny side of the street".

i think some may argue the music you listed isn't as good for dancing, or, to be more accurate, not as good for dancing lindy hop. is it a beginner lindy hop dancing or a beginner move to music that makes you want to move in any way you see fit class? if you're trying to teach lindy, or more broadly swing dancing, then using swing music helps a lot.

(that said: i like indigo swing and "vem vet" and i actually do enjoy to lindy to them.)

Much of the "real swing" stuff is with large orchestras, there is not much neo-swing stuff of that complexity.

much of the real swing stuff is also small groups, so i don't think that's a good argument for or against. there's an obvious joke about the neo-swing stuff and the complexity, of course. :o)

Also I listed stuff where I figured people might not already know. Things like "sunny side of the street" and ellas stuff probably everybody in this forum knows, I'm not so sure about "Vem Vet".

"vem vet" was very popular four or five years ago, and indigo swing even more so nine or ten years ago. you still hear them places.

i suggest playing over-played favourites. i looked at my library just now and i think, at one time or another, i've used each of these in class. if i haven't, i certainly would. i've only taught very basic lindy to complete beginners. for bal or charleston you could go way faster in a beginner class, of course.

My Baby Just Cares for Me Nina Simone; 119; Jazz Masters 17
I'm Beginning to See the Light; Count Basie; 120; Complete Clef/Verve Count Basie Fifties Studio Recordings
Organ Grinder's Swing; Jimmie Lunceford; 120; Rhythm Is Our Business
Things Ain't What They Used to Be; Duke Ellington; 127; The Ella Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington Côte d'Azur Concerts on Verve
Summit Ridge Drive; Artie Shaw and His Gramercy 5; 129; Self Portrait
Lullaby of Birdland; Ella Fitzgerald; 129; The Ella Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington Côte d'Azur Concerts on Verve
Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home?; Ella Fitzgerald; 130; Jukebox Ella (The Complete Verve Singles, Volume 1)
Smooth Sailin'; Ella Fitzgerald and her Quartet; 132; J.A.T.P. in Tokyo 1953
Alright O.K. You Win; Count Basie; 133; Complete Clef/Verve Count Basie Fifties Studio Recordings
Bli-Blip; Ella Fitzgerald; 133; The Duke Ellington Song Book
Lavender Coffin; Lionel Hampton and his Orchestra with Sonny Parker & Joe James; 134; Hamp: The Legendary Decca Recordings
Blues My Naughty Sweetie Gives to Me; Sidney Bechet and his Hot Six; 136; Complete 1939-1951 Blue Note Master Takes
Banana Split for My Baby; Louis Prima; 137; The Capitol Recordings
Shout, Sister, Shout; Lucky Millinder; 141; Apollo Jump
Apollo Jump; Lucky Millinder; 141; Apollo Jump
On Revival Day; LaVern Baker; 142; Precious Memories / LaVern Sings Bessie Smith
This Little Light of Mine; Gene Harris; 144; The Best of the Concord Years
For Dancers Only; Jimmie Lunceford; 148; Rhythm Is Our Business
Solid As a Rock; Ella Fitzgerald; 151; 1950
Corner Pocket; Count Basie; 152; Count Basie: Live at the Sands
Streamliner; Bill Elliott; 155; Introducing Dorothy Dandridge (TV Movie Soundtrack)
Are You All Reet?; Cab Calloway; 157; Are You Hep to the Jive?
't Ain't What You Do; Jimmie Lunceford; 160; Lunceford Special 1939-40
My Baby's Sweet; The Swing Session; 160; The Swing Session
Are You Hep to the Jive?; Cab Calloway; 161; Are You Hep to the Jive?
Sing Me a Swing Song (and Let Me Dance); Ella Fitzgerald; 162; Ella Fitzgerald --The Early Years -- Part 1
Jump Session; Slim Gaillard & Slam Stewart;162; Complete Columbia Master Takes
I Like Pie, I Like Cake; The Four Clefs; 166; The Jive Is Jumpin': RCA and Victor Vocal Groups 1939-52
Ol' Man Mose; Ella Fitzgerald; 168; Jukebox Ella (The Complete Verve Singles, Volume 1)
Now You Has Jazz; Louis Armstrong; 168; Mack the Knife
Tutti Frutti; Slim Gaillard & Slam Stewart; 170; Complete Columbia Master Takes
The Flat Foot Floogie; Slim Gaillard & Slam Stewart; 177; Complete Columbia Master Takes
Look-a There; Slim Gaillard & Slam Stewart; 179; Complete Columbia Master Takes

mr. e wrote:He! You promised us a detailed answer!
Come on. Swing dancers know that there is no right or wrong, just different styles. So please share your style!

No....gonna pass. Too 1999 for my tastes. Best wishes to all.

I'm pretty sure this discussion has come up at least a couple of times before but I'm lazy and don't feel like looking up old topics.

I agree with lipi's comments. It's not all my taste in music but it fits the criteria I look for. To some extent I agree with penguin, at least the part about avoiding stuff that's "too musical"

Assuming we're talking music for Lindy Hop or 30's Charleston, I look for a solid swing rhythm, not too many breaks, a fairly predictable melody that accents the rhythm and a suitable tempo for the audience and subject mater.

My go-to stuff is Andy Kirk, Billie Holiday (stuff from the 30's), a few Lionel Hampton tracks, Lucy Millinder and a few Benny Goodman tracks.

Something like Midriff that surreal listed is something I would avoid. "Apollo Jump" and "Jump Session" from lipi's list is spot on the criteria I look for. I often use Billie Holiday's "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off", if I want a little more musical but still predictable, Lunceford's "Loose Wig" or "For Dancers Only"

mr. e, let me pick on this statement with my teacher hat on:

Because it's about a beginners dancing class, and not a swing music class. As long as the music is good for dancing it's fine. I will of course also use some of the classics like "sunny side of the street".

I think it's naive to disconnect the dance from the music. As a teacher, you are teaching both music and dance whether you are trying or not. Beginners will bond the music you use with the dance you teach. If you don't play classic music in class, your students won't dance to it on the social floor.

There is great classic music for teaching. I've heard several reasons from several teachers who opt to play other music for class such as it's too hard to hear the beat, beginners only like "familiar" music, etc. I think it's all bunk. People who are new and not used to jazz, particularly swing music also need to learn to listen, as a teacher you are not helping them learn to dance without teaching them to listen to the music they will get to dance to. Trying to teach dance without teaching dancers to hear the rhythm in swing music is like trying to teach spelling without the alphabet.

Playing classic swing music or equivalent modern recordings (like Campus 5 or Boilermakers) in class, can teach the dance and teach the students about the music at the same time.

amen.

Do your scene and your local DJs a favor and play good swing music in your classes. The music in class should always be good for dancing and teaching. Your beginners hopefully wont always be beginners, so giving them crap in their infancy is no way to raise them to be strong lindy hoppers and swing music lovers in the future.

Something I've always liked as a student, is a teacher with an enthusiasm for their music. It's nice to hear a teacher name the song and artist of the music they're playing in class - it gives students a chance to chase down stuff they hear in class.
For many newer dancers this is also the one place they have access to people who're happy to talk about music and give tips for finding CDs to start a collection.

Toon Town Dave wrote:
I think it's naive to disconnect the dance from the music. As a teacher, you are teaching both music and dance whether you are trying or not. Beginners will bond the music you use with the dance you teach. If you don't play classic music in class, your students won't dance to it on the social floor.

There is great classic music for teaching. I've heard several reasons from several teachers who opt to play other music for class such as it's too hard to hear the beat, beginners only like "familiar" music, etc. I think it's all bunk. People who are new and not used to jazz, particularly swing music also need to learn to listen, as a teacher you are not helping them learn to dance without teaching them to listen to the music they will get to dance to. Trying to teach dance without teaching dancers to hear the rhythm in swing music is like trying to teach spelling without the alphabet.

Excellent.

Nobody said anywhere that you shouldn't use classic swing ever for teaching.

Just that you can also use neo-swing or not-quite-swing stuff for teaching such as "Vem Vet".

With your argumentation, people would only be able to dance swing to classic swing then. So following your argumentation instead you should in fact be also using some non-swing or neo-swing stuff in you classes, so people notice they could dance it to other music as well.

So don't get me wrong, I never suggested that you shouldn't ever use classic stuff. I just disagreed with the poster who complained about my additional suggestions being non-classic by conincidence.

It's scary (but typical for forums) that half of the posters get this difference in thread topic wrong ... it's as if they want someone to not like classic swing, "disconnect the dance from the music" etc. pp. This is probably Godwin's Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
adopted to the Swing community - as any thread grows longer, at some point the fight classic swing vs. neo-swing will come up.

Thanks to those who followed the actual topic, which was posting song recommendations you consider good for a beginners class.

Interesting subject. I think it's probably better to let beginner dancers educate themselves about different swing music, which they will do given time - no one wants to dance to the same ten songs every night do they? The key thing initially is to get them up having fun dancing. I've found that beginners tend to take more easily to modern tracks like 'Regular Joe' than classic 30s/40s swing. Why do beginners prefer music like this? Something to do with the steady beat, big clear sound, vocals - all of which can be missing from a lot of older swing.

The problem I've found is that sometimes teachers use a modern track like 'Regular Joe' for a class, then the dance starts and the DJ plays 180bpm classic swing. The beginner dancers are left floundering as they try to fit the moves they've been taught to the faster older music, while the more advanced dancers gradually take over the floor. Partner dancing comfortably to fast-ish old music takes a lot of time to learn.

At the end of the day, perhaps it's a question of the teacher and the band or DJ working more closely together. Perhaps teachers could pay more attention to different music styles and tempos so that beginners are less scared? There are some older tracks that I think would work for beginners classes, mainly from the 1940s. Any experienced teacher should know what would work in their classes.

For song recommendations for beginners classes, I would go for anything with a nice clear sound between 130bpm and 150bpm. Any list of overplayed tracks should have quite a few of these. Some ideas -

All That Meat And No Potatoes - Fats Waller
Are You Hep To The Jive - Cab Calloway
Beau Night In Hotchkiss Corner - Artie Shaw
Broom Street - Les Brown
C Jam Blues - Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra

Lavender Coffin - Lionel Hampton
Opus One - Anita O'Day
Pennsylvania 65000 - Glenn Miller
Shout Sister Shout - Lucky Millinder
Solid As Rock - Count Basie or Ella Fitzgerald versions

Sorghum Switch - Louis Jordan
Surrey With The Fringe On Top - Mary Stallings
Tuxedo Junction - Erskine Hawkins
Well All Right - Tommy Dorsey
Yes Indeed - Tommy Dorsey