Regarding "classic" and "groove" style s

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Regarding "classic" and "groove" style swing DJs:

"Classic" DJs are more likely to include more "groove" songs
7
30%
"Groove" DJs are more likely to include more "classic" songs
3
13%
They both do equally good (or bad) at playing songs of the other style
8
35%
I have no opinion
5
22%
 
Total votes: 23

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Ron
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Regarding "classic" and "groove" style s

#1 Post by Ron » Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:22 am

At the risk of starting another style war, Jeremy's post in another thread prompted this poll.

We all know that most of us tend to fall into one of two main style: "classic" DJs who play more original-era and faster swing, and "groove" DJs who play more modern-era and slower jazz and blues. Most Lindy hop DJs have strong tendencies towards one style or another, including some who almost completely avoid playing songs from the other style.

So which group/style/camp are more likely to play more songs from the other group/style/camp?

This is such an overgeneralization of a poll I almost didn't post it. But what the heck.

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#2 Post by falty411 » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:05 am

i think its important to see which way the "groove" Djs vote and which way the "Classic" DJs vote
-mikey faltesek

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#3 Post by KevinSchaper » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:26 am

ok, how many DJs actually see THEMSEVLES as being in a camp/group?

cuz I don't - I may emphasize one more than another depending on the situation, but I play both ends of the spectrum and lots in between.. and thankfully, I hear a lot of DJs who do the same.

-edit: Is it really *that hard* to like both Chick Webb and Gene Harris?

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#4 Post by Nate Dogg » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:11 pm

KevinSchaper wrote:ok, how many DJs actually see THEMSEVLES as being in a camp/group?

cuz I don't - I may emphasize one more than another depending on the situation, but I play both ends of the spectrum and lots in between.. and thankfully, I hear a lot of DJs who do the same.

-edit: Is it really *that hard* to like both Chick Webb and Gene Harris?
I totally agree.

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#5 Post by Lawrence » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:17 pm

KevinSchaper wrote:ok, how many DJs actually see THEMSEVLES as being in a camp/group?
cuz I don't - I may emphasize one more than another depending on the situation, but I play both ends of the spectrum and lots in between.. and thankfully, I hear a lot of DJs who do the same.
I agree with the spirit of Kevin's point, and I submit that it takes the discussion in a more healthy, less one-dimensional direction than it has gone.

Labels serve a legitimate purpose of clarifying matters for discussion purposes (e.g., clarifying the difference between "Harlem Jazz" as a term of art referring to the prevailing style of music before Basie came to Harlem in 1936). One positive aspect of this labeling has (hopefully) been to inspire DJs who lean toward "classic" to keep an open mind, and vice-versa. It has worked even with me, and I'm a stubborn asshole. :P

However, labels and generalizations have the unfortunate tendency of over-simplyfying matters so as to create confusion, not clarity. That seems to be the essence of the conversation on the matter, recently, which I seem to recall was spurred by comments that Groove DJs aren't playing "real" Lindy Hop music. (e.g. that Barbara Morrison does not sing to "real" Lindy Hop music.)
KevinSchaper wrote:-edit: Is it really *that hard* to like both Chick Webb and Gene Harris?
I like them both, but, to be honest, yes it is that hard, especially when it comes to danceability. It takes a bit broader appreciation of the wide variety of movement that the wide variety of music can inspire.
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#6 Post by Ron » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:09 pm

falty411 wrote:i think its important to see which way the "groove" Djs vote and which way the "Classic" DJs vote
Yeah, probably everyone seems themselves as diverse, and that the other group isn't diverse. So if the "groove" DJs outnumber "classic" DJs 2 to 1, say, the results might be that 2 to 1 think "groove" DJs play more of the other style.

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#7 Post by main_stem » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:28 pm

Lawrence wrote:
KevinSchaper wrote:-edit: Is it really *that hard* to like both Chick Webb and Gene Harris?
I like them both, but, to be honest, yes it is that hard, especially when it comes to danceability. It takes a bit broader appreciation of the wide variety of movement that the wide variety of music can inspire.
Eh? I've played Chick Webb and Gene Harris back to back before and still kept the house jumpin'. I constantly cut from traditional lindy hop music to contemporary (and vice versa) and never had a problem with dancers. Try it some time you old, "...stuborn asshole." :wink:
"We called it music."
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#8 Post by KevinSchaper » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:32 pm

Lawrence wrote:
KevinSchaper wrote:-edit: Is it really *that hard* to like both Chick Webb and Gene Harris?
I like them both, but, to be honest, yes it is that hard, especially when it comes to danceability. It takes a bit broader appreciation of the wide variety of movement that the wide variety of music can inspire.
Actually, I agree that it does ask a lot of a dancer to be able to dance well enough to both artists to actually like them both..

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#9 Post by GemZombie » Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:38 pm

KevinSchaper wrote:ok, how many DJs actually see THEMSEVLES as being in a camp/group?

cuz I don't - I may emphasize one more than another depending on the situation, but I play both ends of the spectrum and lots in between.. and thankfully, I hear a lot of DJs who do the same.

-edit: Is it really *that hard* to like both Chick Webb and Gene Harris?
I would say If I had to classify myslef, I'd be more in the Classic Camp/Group. But even then, I don't quite fit, since I really dig a lot of R&B combo group stuff (Jump Blues etc) that a true hardcore might not care for.

I dig a lot of later Jazz stuff, but don't necesarily want to dance to it, and don't own nearly as much. So as a DJ, I'd say I'm closer to a classic DJ than anything else.

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#10 Post by Lawrence » Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:01 pm

Ron wrote:Yeah, probably everyone seems themselves as diverse, and that the other group isn't diverse. So if the "groove" DJs outnumber "classic" DJs 2 to 1, say, the results might be that 2 to 1 think "groove" DJs play more of the other style.
Actually, even though I fall more into the "Groove" camp, I'll freely admit that Classic DJs play more Groove than Groove DJs need to play classic music, if only out of necessity. Otherwise, the Classic DJ would be run out of town... or banished to L.A./Orange County!! :P Again, nobody complains when the music and sound quality is too GOOD. :P

Seriously, I'm glad they're still out there to keep us connected to our roots.... :wink: For all the bitching and moaning, I'm glad the tether is there, especially to prevent us from morphing completely with the Westie scene. :shock:
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#11 Post by Lawrence » Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:12 pm

main_stem wrote: I've played Chick Webb and Gene Harris back to back before and still kept the house jumpin'. I constantly cut from traditional lindy hop music to contemporary (and vice versa) and never had a problem with dancers. Try it some time you old, "...stuborn asshole." :wink:
Oh, I do! :o And I sometimes make the same abrupt transition when DJing in order to force the issue/appreciation. I also very purposefully teach the difference in my Lindy II classes on Musicality so as to encourage people to be able to appreciate both styles, as well as dancing to Electric Blues, Rock, "Neo crap" and other genres. For all my banter here, and despite my own preference for Groove, I really do respect other's preferences and don't want any of my students to be completely ignorant of the original swing music.

But, the reason I teach it is because it is not an obvious or easy thing to do. It also takes more interest/focus/open-mindedness than the average dancer seems to be able to maintain.
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#12 Post by SirScratchAlot » Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:34 pm

Lawrence wrote: Actually, even though I fall more into the "Groove" camp, I'll freely admit that Classic DJs play more Groove than Groove DJs need to play classic music, if only out of necessity. Otherwise, the Classic DJ would be run out of town... or banished to L.A./Orange County!! :P Again, nobody complains when the music and sound quality is too GOOD. :P

Seriously, I'm glad they're still out there to keep us connected to our roots.... :wink: For all the bitching and moaning, I'm glad the tether is there, especially to prevent us from morphing completely with the Westie scene.
excellent post, nicely said , And I couldn't agree more....
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#13 Post by mousethief » Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:05 am

Lawrence wrote:
I like them both, but, to be honest, yes it is that hard, especially when it comes to danceability. It takes a bit broader appreciation of the wide variety of movement that the wide variety of music can inspire.
um...

danceability? chick webb and gene harris - what?

ol' man chick played year after year for dancers in the one venue everyone in the scene supposedly venerates.

i fall midway between the camps. i have about a 60% post war collection but i review ruben and mike's classic selections on the boards quite regularly to get inspiration and a broader appreciation for the genre.

right now, i'm working on charleston (20s, 30s) flavored pieces, which is woefully underplayed out here.

kalman

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#14 Post by yedancer » Thu Jun 12, 2003 10:08 am

KevinSchaper wrote:ok, how many DJs actually see THEMSEVLES as being in a camp/group?

cuz I don't - I may emphasize one more than another depending on the situation, but I play both ends of the spectrum and lots in between.. and thankfully, I hear a lot of DJs who do the same.

-edit: Is it really *that hard* to like both Chick Webb and Gene Harris?
I totally agree too. It totally depends on the mood of the venue, who is there, etc. Especially if you're spinning during band breaks. I would definitely spin a completely different set if I was handling band breaks for Barbara Morisson, than if I were doing band breaks for Josh Collazo.
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#15 Post by Lawrence » Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:17 pm

mousethief wrote:
Lawrence wrote: I like them both, but, to be honest, yes it is that hard, especially when it comes to danceability. It takes a bit broader appreciation of the wide variety of movement that the wide variety of music can inspire.
danceability? chick webb and gene harris - what?
ol' man chick played year after year for dancers in the one venue everyone in the scene supposedly venerates.
I definitely didn't mean that Chick Webb is undanceable :shock: , just that it is difficult for the same person to like to dance to both Chick Webb and Gene Harris. That difference is at the heart of the debate between groovers and "classicers."
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