Could he have played it in a movie?Eyeball wrote:At the time that ITM first got very popular 1939-1940, Gene Krupa was only with his own band. He left Goodman in 1938 and lead his own band until 1943 when he was arrested and jailed for marijuana possession. He got out and was with TD and then BG again until he re-formed his band.
That said - it may have been a later recording by his band or it may have been a radio broadcast of the era by his band.
Unlikely that it is GK with anoher band b/c once he formally gave up his own band, it was only BG for him on revival tours, AFAIK or IIRC.
Who plays Glenn Miller's 'In The Mood'?
Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy
It occurred to me that "In the Mood" is our "When the Saints Go Marching In".
If you go to New Orleans you will find that all the trad jazz musicians hate "When the Saints" - not because it's a bad song, or even because it's overplayed, but because it's the cliché New Orleans jazz song that everybody knows, even those who otherwise know nothing and care less about the music, and so it's the song that loud, drunk, ignorant tourists will request. There used to be a sign in the Preservation Hall that said "Requests $1. Non traditional New Orleans songs $2. Saints $5."
Every traditional genre of music has its "When the Saints". For blues it's "Sweet Home Chicago". For Irish folk music it's "In Dublin's Fair City". For bluegrass it's "Duelling Banjoes". Perhaps modern genres have it too, it wouldn't surprise me. This is the song that's being frowned upon by the aficionados, the song that marks you as an ignorant tourist if you request it. It's not bad, it's just stigmatized.
Then there are the songs that are actually forever being overplayed but that nobody seems to get tired of. Like "One O'Clock Jump" or "C Jam Blues". Those are approved. Stick to them and you'll be fine.
If you go to New Orleans you will find that all the trad jazz musicians hate "When the Saints" - not because it's a bad song, or even because it's overplayed, but because it's the cliché New Orleans jazz song that everybody knows, even those who otherwise know nothing and care less about the music, and so it's the song that loud, drunk, ignorant tourists will request. There used to be a sign in the Preservation Hall that said "Requests $1. Non traditional New Orleans songs $2. Saints $5."
Every traditional genre of music has its "When the Saints". For blues it's "Sweet Home Chicago". For Irish folk music it's "In Dublin's Fair City". For bluegrass it's "Duelling Banjoes". Perhaps modern genres have it too, it wouldn't surprise me. This is the song that's being frowned upon by the aficionados, the song that marks you as an ignorant tourist if you request it. It's not bad, it's just stigmatized.
Then there are the songs that are actually forever being overplayed but that nobody seems to get tired of. Like "One O'Clock Jump" or "C Jam Blues". Those are approved. Stick to them and you'll be fine.
The musicians allegedly hate The Saints. It's allegedly djs that hate ITM.J-h:n wrote:It occurred to me that "In the Mood" is our "When the Saints Go Marching In".
If you go to New Orleans you will find that all the trad jazz musicians hate "When the Saints" - not because it's a bad song, or even because it's overplayed, but because it's the cliché New Orleans jazz song that everybody knows, even those who otherwise know nothing and care less about the music, and so it's the song that loud, drunk, ignorant tourists will request. There used to be a sign in the Preservation Hall that said "Requests $1. Non traditional New Orleans songs $2. Saints $5."
Every traditional genre of music has its "When the Saints". For blues it's "Sweet Home Chicago". For Irish folk music it's "In Dublin's Fair City". For bluegrass it's "Duelling Banjoes". Perhaps modern genres have it too, it wouldn't surprise me. This is the song that's being frowned upon by the aficionados, the song that marks you as an ignorant tourist if you request it. It's not bad, it's just stigmatized.
Then there are the songs that are actually forever being overplayed but that nobody seems to get tired of. Like "One O'Clock Jump" or "C Jam Blues". Those are approved. Stick to them and you'll be fine.
The public loves both of them.
ITM is instantly recognizable. OOCJ has one theme and one riff that people recognize and they came later in the song. There's not enough in CLB to dislike unless you don't like the note "C". It's all just riffs and jamming.
Will big bands ever come back?
I find it interesting the reaction to ITM. I get different ones from everybody. I've been doing this about 10 years now and the people who used to come up and eagerly request ITM are now the ones who give you the look when you play it for today's wide-eyed enthusiasts.
I think people forget that there are new people coming in to the scene all the time and what's old becomes new again.
The most interesting thing I found is that when big bands inquire about getting booked, they almost all bring up ITM as a selling point. Obviously, they must be seeing a rush to the dance floor when they play that one.
And I almost always suggest to the band or DJ myself ITM as the first song after a lesson or demo at weddings because it keeps/brings dancers on the floor right away. Organizers like to see full floors.
Usually, I play Glenn Miller's version above but choose Doc Severinsen's version when I dj my regular event.
I think people forget that there are new people coming in to the scene all the time and what's old becomes new again.
The most interesting thing I found is that when big bands inquire about getting booked, they almost all bring up ITM as a selling point. Obviously, they must be seeing a rush to the dance floor when they play that one.
And I almost always suggest to the band or DJ myself ITM as the first song after a lesson or demo at weddings because it keeps/brings dancers on the floor right away. Organizers like to see full floors.
Usually, I play Glenn Miller's version above but choose Doc Severinsen's version when I dj my regular event.
If you have to put fruit in it, it's not beer.
Yes, bands do use it as a selling point and I have had to adamently (but respectfully, with a smile) refuse to allow some bands to play that damn song. But it is a product of bands being lazy and not changing their own book up. It also is not the only time that bands misread their audiences.Lindyguy wrote:I find it interesting the reaction to ITM. I get different ones from everybody. I've been doing this about 10 years now and the people who used to come up and eagerly request ITM are now the ones who give you the look when you play it for today's wide-eyed enthusiasts.
I think people forget that there are new people coming in to the scene all the time and what's old becomes new again.
The most interesting thing I found is that when big bands inquire about getting booked, they almost all bring up ITM as a selling point. Obviously, they must be seeing a rush to the dance floor when they play that one.
Many bands also generally play at one tempo (around 180 BPM), and do little more to change it up than than play a slow ballad. The drummers often also like to use the high-hat (the cymbal with two parts that clamp together via a foot pedal to stiphle the sound) to create that campy, choppy swing beat instead of smoothly just tapping out the syncopated rhythm on the ride cymbal. I have had to similarly disavow some drummers of using the high-hat swing beat, advising them for the first time that it is difficult to dance to because it creates an odd, choppy stop in the middle of the syncopation. I have also needed to use similar, friendly persuasion to get them to not play Sing, Sing, Sing, as well.
As for remembering what it was like to be a newbie, I never liked "In the Mood" for dancing, and I do not know too many newbies want it played more than once or twice, if they want it played at all. The theme creates a choppy flow that isn't good for 6-count or Lindy Hop. (Bal or Shag, maybe, but it is pretty slow for those two dances).
Except for the Duke Ellington version I mentioned (which is not really "In the Mood," but instead just a jam that plays the main theme at the end as if it were just a riff), I never, ever would play "In the Mood" of my own volition, and would only play it by request if the venue owner/manager or a guest of honor requested it.
-
Toon Town Dave
- Posts: 661
- Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:52 pm
- Location: Saskatoon, Canada
<off-topic>Lawrence, are you a musician? I'm curious what kind of reaction you get when micro-managing a band? Do you ever re-book that same band?</off-topic>
As tired as ITM is to me, I have to agree with Terry. Dancing to it live from a good big band (with a great drummer) is one of my most fond memories as a newbie. It's familiar and goes over well, even with a band doing a mediocre job playing it. It's a great tune for a band's first set, when there are more newbies around and the fashionably late advanced dancers haven't arrived yet.
It's also a good tune for a mixed crowd with swing and ballroom dancers. It has enough swing (compared to ballroom "swing") to satisfy swing (jazz) dancers while remaining within the comfort zone of ballroom dancers who are not used to dancing to the swinging jazz music we usually like.
As tired as ITM is to me, I have to agree with Terry. Dancing to it live from a good big band (with a great drummer) is one of my most fond memories as a newbie. It's familiar and goes over well, even with a band doing a mediocre job playing it. It's a great tune for a band's first set, when there are more newbies around and the fashionably late advanced dancers haven't arrived yet.
It's also a good tune for a mixed crowd with swing and ballroom dancers. It has enough swing (compared to ballroom "swing") to satisfy swing (jazz) dancers while remaining within the comfort zone of ballroom dancers who are not used to dancing to the swinging jazz music we usually like.
Years ago, when someone else criticized me on this board for daring to "micro-manage a band," I shared that concern with some of my musician friends who played in a band I had put together for an Austin Exchange (indeed, the band I "micro-managed" more than any other band). They all thought the concern was ridiculous and unprofessional. The lead trumpet player even laughed and sarcastically replied, "What, you mean we're supposed to SATISFY THE CUSTOMER?!? Wow, what a shockingly original and presumptuous concept you have developed, Lawrence!!" (Emphasis in original).Toon Town Dave wrote:<off-topic> I'm curious what kind of reaction you get when micro-managing a band? Do you ever re-book that same band?</off-topic>
It, of course, also greatly depends on how you put it and whether you generally come across as someone who knows what you are doing. I, personally, did not have a problem; indeed, I received feedback that my doing so actually commanded respect from some of the more "difficult" members of the band because I knew what I wanted, knew how to convey it, and kept the direction simple. They greatly appreciated the feedback, AND (back-on-topic) they greatly appreciated not needing to play that damn song, again. Not all musicians are uppity rock-star wanna-bes who get their professional guidance from MTV. The best of them are actually rather professional and will do whatever you ask them to do.
And, yes, I have re-booked the same bands more than once, and they all have been eager to do it again. I am still good friends with and play year-round softball with the primary jazz booking agent in Austin, who helped me put together the Big Band for the 2003 Austin Exchange.
Looking at "In The Mood" can at least show what are the elements of a crowd pleaser. I think its popularity was from foreshadowing the emerging elements of popular music.
1) The opening lick -- It's the brass version of Jimmy Hendrix's "Purple Haze", a BOLD statement about the rest of the song. It also gives people time to cram the floor without feeling they're entering the song too late.
2) Perfect tempo -- A fast song, it conveys a challenge, without being a challenging tempo.
3) Three chord rock and roll -- Think about it. An entire decade before the phrase was coined, this song had the elements of it: 12-bar blues.
4) Pianoforte -- The dynamic range of the song, loud and soft and loud again. It's your granddad's Nirvana.
5) Song length -- It's a single, not a marathon like Benny Goodman's "Sing, Sing, Sing". You're in, and you're out. Even if you hate it, it's over before you know it.
6) Timing -- The breaks and ending are all predictable. The thing I HATE about older songs is that I don't know when they're ending so I can apply a big finish. It's like they just stop mid-beat sometimes.
7) All of this means that it's Iconic Imagery -- It transports the listener to a certain time and place, invoking the good, downplaying the bad. America's fighting for Freedom, even if Nisei and African-Americans still had it bad. This is LIFE magazine and the sailor kissing the nurse in Times Square with confetti flying all around. Any other moment, and someone would have called her a hussy. Who lets a stranger kiss them on the mouth like that?
Anyway, overplay kills the magic, and a good DJ is like a canary in a coal mine. But, so what if YOU'RE jaded? Newbies get to be a part of all of this for the first time in their lives. No wonder they get so excited.
1) The opening lick -- It's the brass version of Jimmy Hendrix's "Purple Haze", a BOLD statement about the rest of the song. It also gives people time to cram the floor without feeling they're entering the song too late.
2) Perfect tempo -- A fast song, it conveys a challenge, without being a challenging tempo.
3) Three chord rock and roll -- Think about it. An entire decade before the phrase was coined, this song had the elements of it: 12-bar blues.
4) Pianoforte -- The dynamic range of the song, loud and soft and loud again. It's your granddad's Nirvana.
5) Song length -- It's a single, not a marathon like Benny Goodman's "Sing, Sing, Sing". You're in, and you're out. Even if you hate it, it's over before you know it.
6) Timing -- The breaks and ending are all predictable. The thing I HATE about older songs is that I don't know when they're ending so I can apply a big finish. It's like they just stop mid-beat sometimes.
7) All of this means that it's Iconic Imagery -- It transports the listener to a certain time and place, invoking the good, downplaying the bad. America's fighting for Freedom, even if Nisei and African-Americans still had it bad. This is LIFE magazine and the sailor kissing the nurse in Times Square with confetti flying all around. Any other moment, and someone would have called her a hussy. Who lets a stranger kiss them on the mouth like that?
Anyway, overplay kills the magic, and a good DJ is like a canary in a coal mine. But, so what if YOU'RE jaded? Newbies get to be a part of all of this for the first time in their lives. No wonder they get so excited.
Great post - I agree with your points, except perhaps about song endings. Having listened to a LOT of early big band stuff I find the endings are usually pretty predictable, but I guess to dancers less familiar with the music they would be more difficult to pick. At least the fade-out ending was a rarity back then! 
-
Cyrano de Maniac
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:11 pm
- Location: South Saint Paul, Minnesota
- Contact:
One thing that's very interesting about In The Mood is that is uses both blues and jazz choruses (but without the jazz AABA structure). I just went back and listened to a Glen Miller recording, and the structure I found was:remysun wrote:3) Three chord rock and roll -- Think about it. An entire decade before the phrase was coined, this song had the elements of it: 12-bar blues.
Intro
Blues A chorus
Blues A chorus
Jazz B chorus
Jazz B chorus
Jazz C chorus
Jazz C chorus
Bridge
Jazz D chorus
Jazz D chorus
Transition
Blues A chorus
Blues A chorus
Blues A chorus
Blues A chorus
Finale
Brent
There's something about some older stuff that leaves a lot of dancers hanging. Either there's a false ending, and the song moves on, or the song raps up in a measure and stops, which doesn't allow you to spontaneously choreograph an ending.trev wrote:Great post - I agree with your points, except perhaps about song endings. Having listened to a LOT of early big band stuff I find the endings are usually pretty predictable, but I guess to dancers less familiar with the music they would be more difficult to pick. At least the fade-out ending was a rarity back then!
The worst songs are those that throw both at you, so you dip, wait! There's more-- so you start again, what?! It's like no one wrote the book yet.
Last edited by remysun on Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.