While I don't attend trad jazz festivals due to monetary and distance reasons, I have heard some dixieland and trad jazz bands that I don't think are soulless. A truly good Hot Jazz band makes me want to move just as much as a truly good swing band (albeit move differently)
I suppose it's like Swing and big band. I've heard far too many groups that can't swing, or just play the old Glenn Miller standards. If a band can play with the true spirit, I will love it... but otherwise I'll fall asleep or worse want to dig my ears out with a blunt object.
Jazz Parties / Festivals
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Albert System
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I agree with Jonathan entirely. My band used to play at all the Trad jazz/ Dixieland festivals on the west coast. We quit doing it for a number of reasons:
1. LOUSY Pay for tons of work. The reason they could get away with paying poorly is because there are many retired teachers/ doctors/ lawyers who will play bad, boring dixieland for next to nothing because they think it is fun.
2. Relating to number one, we did not want to be associated with all those lousy amateur dixie bands.
3. BORING! The people who attend sit there and stare at you, no one moves a muscle.
4. Everyone's a critic- jazz fest crowds tend to be hyper- critical of varied tune selections, especially if you are not a re-creation or transcription band- ie playing tunes note for note from famous recordings.
I think that the concept of having a festival is great. But most of these dixie fests are dying because the average age of those attending is over 70, and also because they make no effort at all to attract a youger crowd- which means dancers.
A friend of mine is on the board of the Toronto Hot Jazz Society, Basically, they bring in Dixie bands to Toronto a couple times a month for concerts. They used to draw easily 300 per show. The numbers have been way down lately, and half of the club is dying off. I told him to move some tables back, and invite the Toronto swing dancing community. They won't do it.
Paul Cosentino
Boilermaker Jazz Band
1. LOUSY Pay for tons of work. The reason they could get away with paying poorly is because there are many retired teachers/ doctors/ lawyers who will play bad, boring dixieland for next to nothing because they think it is fun.
2. Relating to number one, we did not want to be associated with all those lousy amateur dixie bands.
3. BORING! The people who attend sit there and stare at you, no one moves a muscle.
4. Everyone's a critic- jazz fest crowds tend to be hyper- critical of varied tune selections, especially if you are not a re-creation or transcription band- ie playing tunes note for note from famous recordings.
I think that the concept of having a festival is great. But most of these dixie fests are dying because the average age of those attending is over 70, and also because they make no effort at all to attract a youger crowd- which means dancers.
A friend of mine is on the board of the Toronto Hot Jazz Society, Basically, they bring in Dixie bands to Toronto a couple times a month for concerts. They used to draw easily 300 per show. The numbers have been way down lately, and half of the club is dying off. I told him to move some tables back, and invite the Toronto swing dancing community. They won't do it.
Paul Cosentino
Boilermaker Jazz Band
I am thinking the audeince demeanor and reaction (or non-reaction) has to be a learned response b/c how could anyone just sit there with little or no emotional response to what is lively and peppy music at worst and exciting and happy music at best?Albert System wrote:
3. BORING! The people who attend sit there and stare at you, no one moves a muscle.
Why do people think they must just sit there motionless, joyless or just tapping their feet?
Wow. Try breaking that pattern of behavior.
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texas-eddie
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Eh, I agree on most points. But I figure a lot of these jazz festivals are a chance to hear bands that I normally don't get to hear (that's how I found out about TH7). I'm prepared to absorb the not-so-great bands that are liable to be at these events, which is why I usually only go for one day. If I get one or two bands that I got a kick out of I'm good to go. Hopefully we can manage to find a way to dance here and there too...
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Bob the Builder
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Toon Town Dave
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Interesting. Our jazz society (more into bebop and soul jazz) has typically been unaccommodating for dancers. According to some swing dancers that were around before I started dancing, some of the influential figures in our jazz community disliked dancing while they were playing so dancing was discouraged. We've had some great bands for swing and other dancing like Preservation Hall and Matt Dusk who are put in a theatre venue. Little duo, trios and quartets playing concert style jazz usually end up in a larger ballroom venue with chairs filling the floor or a club venue with a small (unused) dance floor. Both Preservation Hall and Matt Dusk were sold out, I think maybe one of the small groups sold out. There are always a few dancers on the grass in front of the outdoor free-stage which is just local bands so there is clearly some interest in dancing to the music.Albert System wrote:I told him to move some tables back, and invite the Toronto swing dancing community. They won't do it.
A couple of festival big wigs approached me independently a few months ago, one was really enthusiastic about connecting come dancing with jazz at least in a performance setting so perhaps they're coming around to the idea of dancers as potential paying customers even if they take up more space than the concert crowd.
With respect to Hot Jazz, we have one group of old-timers that really aren't that great which I think most people associate with that style of music. We've had Preservation Hall and Jeff Healey's Jazz Wizards play here and really knock the socks off the crowds so the interest is there if the music is good.
We've has similar issues with our Jazz Society. At one infamous event the dancers were invited by the band to attend a Jazz Society big band night. When we got there they had rows of seating across the dance floor, and only with some last minute pleading from the band leader did we get a 2m x 2m dance floor at the far end of the room next to the kitchen. Not the best situation, but it was made worse when the society members told us to "be quiet back there, we're trying to listen to the jazz!" 
On the other hand the other Jazz Club has been awesome. They are more trad/dixie focused, and they were genuinely overwhelmed when a group of us attended one of their events, and saw that we had passion for their music. This crowd is typically in their 60s-70s and they found it particularly moving that all these 'young' people were interested, because, as we were told later, they had a real fear that their kind of jazz would die out once they were gone. We've since collaborated more often!
On the other hand the other Jazz Club has been awesome. They are more trad/dixie focused, and they were genuinely overwhelmed when a group of us attended one of their events, and saw that we had passion for their music. This crowd is typically in their 60s-70s and they found it particularly moving that all these 'young' people were interested, because, as we were told later, they had a real fear that their kind of jazz would die out once they were gone. We've since collaborated more often!
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Toon Town Dave
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Indeed, I'm hoping for some better collaboration between our Jazz community and dancers. A good working relationship would be beneficial to both groups, more dancing and more people to attend bigger, better events.
Our blues society is much more clued in to the fact that people like to dance so they usually have some space between the stage and seating for dancers. We've got some really talented blues musicians so the floor is usually full. Having liquid courage for sale also helps fill it up the dance floor.
Our blues society is much more clued in to the fact that people like to dance so they usually have some space between the stage and seating for dancers. We've got some really talented blues musicians so the floor is usually full. Having liquid courage for sale also helps fill it up the dance floor.
I'm going to talk a bit about live music in Melbourne generally, as well as festivals, because I think it's worth emphasising the difference between American and Australian (or Melbournian) live jazz scenes.
I'm also going to emphasise dancing + live jazz. Take it as given that I'm as happy to sit and listen as dance.
I'm in Melbourne (where Brian's at) and have had mixed experiences with 'non-dancing' crowds at local jazz gigs. On the whole, the older jazz fans have really dug we younger dancers getting out there and having fun. I tend to run into these older fans all over the place - they follow good bands around.
And I have difficulty dismissing them just as 'older jazz fans' - sure, they're in their 60s and 70s, but they're far more relaxed and prepared to have fun than most younger lindy hoppers in our scene. Lindy hoppers here can be a bit like teenagers - a bit too worried about whether they're looking cool, a bit too afraid of embarassing themselves, and a bit too sulky if the music isn't exactly to their taste.
The older jazz fans, however, are always up for some fun. They're the ladies who grab me when I'm handing out flyers at a gig (especially in the parks or at the zoo), start conversations at the bar and make blue jokes. They're a lot less precious than some dancers.
Though, again, they're a mixed group - some of the older jazz nicks round town are big drinking, rough-housing types. Some are fussy nannas. Though the ones I really like are easy going, looking-for-fun nannas and poppas out on the town and looking for fun.
Jazz festivals here can be really varied. The ones run by the jazz social clubs (like the Vic Jazz Club) in Melbourne tend to be held out in the sticks, so they're not going to attract the inner city types (like me - who has no car). The style (and quality) of music can be really mixed as well - much as you've described in earlier posts. I've heard some really lame arse 'trad jazz' that makes me cringe. But I've also heard some phenomenal music that makes me want to dance like a fool.
On the other hand, the jazz festivals sponsored by local jazz club venues (like Bennett's Lane) tend to be centered on inner city clubs which don't have dance floors and do not tolerate dancing... heck, they make you turn off your phone and won't let you talk during gigs at Bennett's Lane. This sort of jazz tends towards the post-swing, 'free' or arty-farty jazz. And is mostly undanceable.
There's actually a bit of money around for running festivals in Melbourne - the Melbourne City Council has an active arts funding program, and the local councils also fund lots of live music festivals. In 2005 the MLX coincided with the Johnston Street festival - a Spanish festival with lots of food, music and dancing. The inner city councils tend to favour other types of music beyond jazz, or to present a more mixed musical program (the Sydney Road Festival run by the Moreland council is an example - they close off the main street and have live music in all the pubs and bars and council venues up and down the street. It's excellent fun). There are also really big music festivals (like the St Kilda Festival) which feature young people music in a big way.
Jazz simply isn't popular enough to attract a lot of council funding, though.
I've also noticed a preponderance of trad jazz (ie the sort of 'pre-swing era' stuff) and 'arty farty' jazz generally in Melbourne. I love that olden days action, but there's not actually a whole lot of solidly swinging jazz that would appeal to lindy hoppers who aren't keen on trad... Or, I should say, there are more trad bands than other types. Except jump blues. We got that.
I've never had Trev's experience (knock on wood), but I have been at gigs where the band haven't been exactly happy to have dancers stealing their lime light. I try to touch base with the bandmembers at some point during the breaks to be sure they're cool with us dancing - just in case. And if they're not, I'm not likely to hang around. This hasn't happened very often, though.
I think it's worth noting that in Melbourne alone you can dance every night of the week to a live band - and often have to choose between bands on a few nights. I can think of at least 20 bands in Melbourne that I can happily dance to. And that's not counting all the bands I haven't seen or don't particularly like. Of that twenty 3 or 4 are solidly swinging, 2 or 3 are jump blues, a couple are 'neo' and the rest are 'trad'.
It's also entirely likely that you'll be the only dancer there at any of these gigs. In a city with a few thousand lindy hoppers and the largest swing scene in Australia.
When we have festivals (and there are at least three jazz social clubs who organise them, then at least a couple of inner city venues who also run bigger festival-type events) we also attract a lot of artists from interstate and overseas. Come winter (the northern hemisphere's summer), many of our bands lose members (or are entirely absent) for the summer 'jazz season' in Europe. Our musicians are freaking good. Just under-patronised by dancers.
I've only been to one Australian jazz fest outside Melbourne - in Sydney - and that was outdoors. It was also in Manly, on the beach, so it totally wins for location. Russell could no doubt tell you more about that gig.
I've unfortunately missed the Devenport Jazz Fest in Tasmania, but Brian could tell you about that.
I'm also going to emphasise dancing + live jazz. Take it as given that I'm as happy to sit and listen as dance.
I'm in Melbourne (where Brian's at) and have had mixed experiences with 'non-dancing' crowds at local jazz gigs. On the whole, the older jazz fans have really dug we younger dancers getting out there and having fun. I tend to run into these older fans all over the place - they follow good bands around.
And I have difficulty dismissing them just as 'older jazz fans' - sure, they're in their 60s and 70s, but they're far more relaxed and prepared to have fun than most younger lindy hoppers in our scene. Lindy hoppers here can be a bit like teenagers - a bit too worried about whether they're looking cool, a bit too afraid of embarassing themselves, and a bit too sulky if the music isn't exactly to their taste.
The older jazz fans, however, are always up for some fun. They're the ladies who grab me when I'm handing out flyers at a gig (especially in the parks or at the zoo), start conversations at the bar and make blue jokes. They're a lot less precious than some dancers.
Though, again, they're a mixed group - some of the older jazz nicks round town are big drinking, rough-housing types. Some are fussy nannas. Though the ones I really like are easy going, looking-for-fun nannas and poppas out on the town and looking for fun.
Jazz festivals here can be really varied. The ones run by the jazz social clubs (like the Vic Jazz Club) in Melbourne tend to be held out in the sticks, so they're not going to attract the inner city types (like me - who has no car). The style (and quality) of music can be really mixed as well - much as you've described in earlier posts. I've heard some really lame arse 'trad jazz' that makes me cringe. But I've also heard some phenomenal music that makes me want to dance like a fool.
On the other hand, the jazz festivals sponsored by local jazz club venues (like Bennett's Lane) tend to be centered on inner city clubs which don't have dance floors and do not tolerate dancing... heck, they make you turn off your phone and won't let you talk during gigs at Bennett's Lane. This sort of jazz tends towards the post-swing, 'free' or arty-farty jazz. And is mostly undanceable.
There's actually a bit of money around for running festivals in Melbourne - the Melbourne City Council has an active arts funding program, and the local councils also fund lots of live music festivals. In 2005 the MLX coincided with the Johnston Street festival - a Spanish festival with lots of food, music and dancing. The inner city councils tend to favour other types of music beyond jazz, or to present a more mixed musical program (the Sydney Road Festival run by the Moreland council is an example - they close off the main street and have live music in all the pubs and bars and council venues up and down the street. It's excellent fun). There are also really big music festivals (like the St Kilda Festival) which feature young people music in a big way.
Jazz simply isn't popular enough to attract a lot of council funding, though.
I've also noticed a preponderance of trad jazz (ie the sort of 'pre-swing era' stuff) and 'arty farty' jazz generally in Melbourne. I love that olden days action, but there's not actually a whole lot of solidly swinging jazz that would appeal to lindy hoppers who aren't keen on trad... Or, I should say, there are more trad bands than other types. Except jump blues. We got that.
I've never had Trev's experience (knock on wood), but I have been at gigs where the band haven't been exactly happy to have dancers stealing their lime light. I try to touch base with the bandmembers at some point during the breaks to be sure they're cool with us dancing - just in case. And if they're not, I'm not likely to hang around. This hasn't happened very often, though.
I think it's worth noting that in Melbourne alone you can dance every night of the week to a live band - and often have to choose between bands on a few nights. I can think of at least 20 bands in Melbourne that I can happily dance to. And that's not counting all the bands I haven't seen or don't particularly like. Of that twenty 3 or 4 are solidly swinging, 2 or 3 are jump blues, a couple are 'neo' and the rest are 'trad'.
It's also entirely likely that you'll be the only dancer there at any of these gigs. In a city with a few thousand lindy hoppers and the largest swing scene in Australia.
When we have festivals (and there are at least three jazz social clubs who organise them, then at least a couple of inner city venues who also run bigger festival-type events) we also attract a lot of artists from interstate and overseas. Come winter (the northern hemisphere's summer), many of our bands lose members (or are entirely absent) for the summer 'jazz season' in Europe. Our musicians are freaking good. Just under-patronised by dancers.
I've only been to one Australian jazz fest outside Melbourne - in Sydney - and that was outdoors. It was also in Manly, on the beach, so it totally wins for location. Russell could no doubt tell you more about that gig.
I've unfortunately missed the Devenport Jazz Fest in Tasmania, but Brian could tell you about that.
OK some of my experience with jazz festivals in Australia and more specifically in Sydney and NSW.
None of these are specifically trad jazz festivals but broader in scope.
Manly Jazz Festival (as mentioned by Dogpossum) (Sydney)
Has a wide range of styles in an outdoor setting. Usually has a few international guests thrown in. Usually can find a few swinging bands some really great. Usually know a lot of the musicans in these bands and they are supportive of dancers. The festival itself is agnostic towards dancers but you can find somewhere to dance. The audience is pretty varied with a lot of casual listeners.
Darling Harbour Jazz Festival (Sydney)
Again a wide range of styles but heading towards the commercial end with an emphasis on appealing to the masses. Held in an outdoor setting. Again usually can find some danceable bands and always a lot of fun. Can always find somewhere to dance and the audience appreciates the dancing.
Thredbo Jazz Festival (NSW)
This is held in a ski resort in autumn. Everyone comes and stops in the village so has a great feel. It is two hours drive away from my home scene of Canberra so a group of us dancers usually heads down there each year. Again a range of styles. It is a lot of fun with an intimate atmosphere with a mixture of indoor and outdoor gigs (though more indoor). Great to chat to the musicans as everyone just hangs around. It has a mixture of younger people and the traditional older fans. Some of the gigs are set up as concerts and the oldies look down a little if we dance at these but most of the gigs are dance friendly. The organisers are really encouraging of our dancing and we have run taster swing classes the last two years. They are trying to make it more attractive and with more energy to attract the younger crowd. One of the highlights last year was a high school big band (Kirrawee) that played with more passion and soul than the professional armed forces big band that played. Another highlight was that it snowed and we thought we might be stuck there for a few days. A musical highlight was the Syncopators from Melbourne who played some great hot sets.
None of these are specifically trad jazz festivals but broader in scope.
Manly Jazz Festival (as mentioned by Dogpossum) (Sydney)
Has a wide range of styles in an outdoor setting. Usually has a few international guests thrown in. Usually can find a few swinging bands some really great. Usually know a lot of the musicans in these bands and they are supportive of dancers. The festival itself is agnostic towards dancers but you can find somewhere to dance. The audience is pretty varied with a lot of casual listeners.
Darling Harbour Jazz Festival (Sydney)
Again a wide range of styles but heading towards the commercial end with an emphasis on appealing to the masses. Held in an outdoor setting. Again usually can find some danceable bands and always a lot of fun. Can always find somewhere to dance and the audience appreciates the dancing.
Thredbo Jazz Festival (NSW)
This is held in a ski resort in autumn. Everyone comes and stops in the village so has a great feel. It is two hours drive away from my home scene of Canberra so a group of us dancers usually heads down there each year. Again a range of styles. It is a lot of fun with an intimate atmosphere with a mixture of indoor and outdoor gigs (though more indoor). Great to chat to the musicans as everyone just hangs around. It has a mixture of younger people and the traditional older fans. Some of the gigs are set up as concerts and the oldies look down a little if we dance at these but most of the gigs are dance friendly. The organisers are really encouraging of our dancing and we have run taster swing classes the last two years. They are trying to make it more attractive and with more energy to attract the younger crowd. One of the highlights last year was a high school big band (Kirrawee) that played with more passion and soul than the professional armed forces big band that played. Another highlight was that it snowed and we thought we might be stuck there for a few days. A musical highlight was the Syncopators from Melbourne who played some great hot sets.