Personal evolution of music preferences

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

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Cyrano de Maniac
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Personal evolution of music preferences

#1 Post by Cyrano de Maniac » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:23 pm

I've recently noticed something unsettling in the swing music I enjoy. Namely, it's changing.

A few weeks ago I received an Amazon order, and among other albums I received Lily Wilde's Insect Ball. While listening to it I though "You know, a year ago I would have loved this album, now it's just kind of OK, and it's mostly not what I'd be looking for as a dancer." Not that there's anything wrong with it mind you (well, there are definitely some neo-swing numbers on it that kind of grate on me these days, but whatever), just that it doesn't really strike my fancy anymore. Along with about 40% of the other albums I now have in my collection.

I imagine this is something that a number of you have gone through. I'm curious to know how you've seen your own swing music preferences, styles, and collection evolve over time.

Personally I'm not disturbed by this change, I just find it intriguing, and I wonder if I'll eventually find a musical locale that I settle upon, or if my taste will just continue to drift indefinitely. I can't imagine ever being very fond of really old recordings regardless of the style, due to the relatively poor audio quality, nor of old janky tunes, but one never knows.

Thoughts?

Brent

Haydn
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Re: Personal evolution of music preferences

#2 Post by Haydn » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:43 am

Cyrano de Maniac wrote:I've recently noticed something unsettling in the swing music I enjoy. Namely, it's changing.

A few weeks ago I received an Amazon order, and among other albums I received Lily Wilde's Insect Ball. While listening to it I though "You know, a year ago I would have loved this album, now it's just kind of OK, and it's mostly not what I'd be looking for as a dancer."

Thoughts?

Brent
I listen to samples of every song on every CD I buy before selectively importing them to iTunes on my computer. I've noticed it's fun doing it 'blind', i.e. without looking at the names of the songs. If I know the name of the song first, I think my pre-conceived idea about that song stops me really hear it objectively. I often change my tastes, I think it's healthy :)

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la musette
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#3 Post by la musette » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:50 pm

I recently went back through my CD collection and found that on a lot of CD's I'd only imported 1 or 2 songs to my computer, thinking the rest weren't right for dancing. But my swing dancing has diversified A LOT in the last few years, and now I WANT some of those songs I previously rejected, because they're awesome for dancing. And by the same token, a lot of the songs I liked when I was learning East Coast Swing are now seem painfully cheesy or artificial to my ears. (For example, most of the revival bands of the 90's, like Brian Setzer or Cherry Poppin' Daddies) There are even songs I tagged just a year ago with 5 stars and now I can't stand the singer's voice so the songs had to be sternly demoted to 2 stars. :D (that's what happens when you live with a professionally trained vocalist!)

I've also rediscovered the joy of 'just for listening' jazz, though that's more of a live preference for me than an 'own it on CD' kind of thing.

As for the question of the future, I think our tastes will continue to evolve. There are always other genres or countries or languages to discover, and new genres being created (like the clubbing swing in the other thread). And if you hang out too much with musicians they can totally turn you on to some things and RUIN you for others :)

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Eyeball
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#4 Post by Eyeball » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:54 pm

For me, as a way back in the day Swing and big band collector beginning in the mid 1960s, my tastes in swing bands have expanded, but only because I have come across more bands that are rarely heard these days/decades.

Luckily for me, I began with the best of the best....there was no neo in those days, though there were some bland dance bands still active, but my own inate good taste ( :) ) kept me away from those.

The 1960s were interesting for big swing bands b/c, with only a few exceptions, all the giants of the 320s aqnd 40s were still alive and active.

I think unless one really works at it or is lucky enough to be exposed to more stuff, your tatses may tend to stay pretty much the same.

You guys who began with neo have lots of space to move upwards.

What I would hope for many of you who stay in the game is that you discover the wonder of a well composed song that is not necesarily a Swing song. There are SO many good pop tunes and ballads fomr that ersa that are fairly beglected or are only known by fans of the music and jazz musicians. Most Swing fans who have come along in the last decade either have not heard many pop tunes and ballads, or have not given them a good hearing.

In the world of Jazz that relates to Swing, there is only so much movement before you leave the realm.....so try and enjoy as much as you can.

I know that I absolutely hated some of the pop and ballad stuff when I first began listening to it. It was stupid to me...b/c I was a clunk kid who was 13 y/o.

OKeh...that's enough.

You will know you have taken a giant step forward on the day that you understand why "Elmer's Tune" was and still is so popular.

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#5 Post by julius » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:18 pm

John, sometimes your attitudes about music come off as something other than "this is good music, you might like it". It comes across as "this is good music, someday the uneducated will learn to appreciate it", which is a little bit irritating. (Yes, I have that irritating habit as well as many others; we don't have to rehash that discussion.) Most swing DJs are dancers and pursue jazz because of its relation to dancing.

As far as the evolution of my musical tastes, I began with a sampler cassette set of Benny Goodman, Ella Fitzgerald, Count Basie, and Glenn Miller, and then when I began dancing I never really enjoyed the neo bands with thumping rhythm (think BBVD or RCR) but I really liked Indigo Swing and Lavay Smith as well as live big bands. Somewhere along the way I learned to appreciate a mellow New Testament Basie sound for dancing, and then I learned a little bit more about blues and blues dancing, and I can fake a little bit of west coast when that music comes on, but in the end my feet still want to kick it with Benny, Ella, Basie, and Glenn.

The music that makes me want to dance most has a powerful four on the floor pulse.

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Eyeball
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#6 Post by Eyeball » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:02 pm

Julius-

Your perception of my opinions or posts may be accurate or it may be not.

OKeh...I read it again. I expouse both theories. Yes, some day the presently uneducated or uninformed or unintroduced may come to appreciate it....and what's wrong with that?

Also - not everyone one here will be a swing dj all their lives.

Not sure why you felt the need to make it personal.

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Kaastel
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#7 Post by Kaastel » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:14 am

There's no question for me that my musical tastes have evolved. I attribute it to my change in dancing, like la musette. Our scene has been almost strictly East Coast/West Coast for years, it's just now starting to evolve to where more people are doing Lindy. As my own Lindy skills have expanded, I've moved from the neo-swing (much of which I still enjoy, I have to say) to more mellow tunes that you can do nice, smooth Lindy to. I've also had a huge explosion of my Balboa music, although virtually no one in Athens is yet Bal-OK except my partner and I, so not much of it makes it on to my play list. Oddly, I still can't stand more than 1-2 songs/night of anything pre-1960s. Makes it frustrating to go to Lindy exchanges.

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Eyeball
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#8 Post by Eyeball » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:35 pm

Kaastel wrote: As my own Lindy skills have expanded, I've moved from the neo-swing (much of which I still enjoy, I have to say) to more mellow tunes that you can do nice, smooth Lindy to.
What is 'smooth Lindy'?

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la musette
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#9 Post by la musette » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:40 pm

In response to each of you....
Eyeball wrote:
Kaastel wrote: As my own Lindy skills have expanded, I've moved from the neo-swing (much of which I still enjoy, I have to say) to more mellow tunes that you can do nice, smooth Lindy to.
What is 'smooth Lindy'?
maybe you're asking about the music for smooth lindy, or being sarcastic? but if you're not, then it's this:

Dean Collins

I think this is what most people dance when the music is medium to slow tempo. I've heard that Dean Collins is credited with popularizing it but I'm no historian.

And if you love balboa, come to All Ball Weekend in Cleveland!!! That's where I fell in love with balboa (3 years after learning the basic...) :)

And [rant] my falling-out with neo-swing began when I saw Big Bad Voo Doo Daddy in concert in Columbus when they played with our Symphony for a pops series. I was horrified at how bad their improvisation was. I could find you a whole lot of local musicians way more skilled and they're not making the money and going on tours because they don't have the gimmicky zoot suits and hats? Maybe it was just an off night and they were being lazy, but I was supremely annoyed at having paid money to hear them do poor imitations of their albums. It was just cheezy cruise boat entertainment. [/rant] :) Am I the snob now? ;)

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#10 Post by Toon Town Dave » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:29 pm

I saw BBVD at a show in Boston a few years ago when the released their last CD. I was disappointed that the band was clapping on the 1. Clearly they don't understand the music they are attempting to play.

I can't say my tastes have really changed although my the depth of music I listen to has increased as I've learned more about the music and artists and where to find recordings.

I think many smaller scenes like mine have limited local access to good recorded music for Lindy Hop, local record stores tend to have only a handfull of really well known artists, a couple dozen CDs, all with various combinations of 12 of the same 16 recordings. Sometimes our first impression of the music of the greats like Basie and Ellington is skewed because the stuff our local record stores carry is mostly not good for dancing. Stuff like RCR and BBVD become the least bad.

On-line music stores like iTunes and resources like allmusic along with European labels producing inexpensive box sets have made a huge difference in making the music most of us DJ more accessible.

I still like jump blues by new artists, I'm just don't dig some of the novelty stuff like Zoot Suit Riot. Some of the neo-swing era stuff like Indigo Swing is okay hearing the same stuff at every dance and every lesson series for nearly 2 years sort of burned it out for me.

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#11 Post by Eyeball » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:44 pm

la musette wrote:In response to each of you....
Eyeball wrote:
Kaastel wrote: As my own Lindy skills have expanded, I've moved from the neo-swing (much of which I still enjoy, I have to say) to more mellow tunes that you can do nice, smooth Lindy to.
What is 'smooth Lindy'?
maybe you're asking about the music for smooth lindy, or being sarcastic? but if you're not, then it's this:

I think this is what most people dance when the music is medium to slow tempo. I've heard that Dean Collins is credited with popularizing it but I'm no historian.

No sarcasm intended.

"Smooth Lindy" is a term that had little currency out here where the Dean Collins influence in the 90s was as strong or stronger than the so-called "Savoy Style" Lindy....at least among the pace setters.

Now that I remember, 'Smooth Lindy' was a term that got co-opted by the 'Savoy' teachers who chose not to acknowledge Dean Collins for as long as they did not have to. (Corrections by those who remember better are welcome.)

Lots of Dean Collins style is done to fast swing as all the film clips show.

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Lawrence
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#12 Post by Lawrence » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:12 pm

This topic is an overlooked but good topic that many people (especially DJs) who insist they have cornered the market on "real" Lindy/swing music should consider.

I personally evolved along the following route:
  • 1) Neo Swing, to
    2) Vintage Swing Era and Jump Blues, to
    3) New Testament Basie and post-WWII Big Band ("Big 18" stuff), to
    4) Small Group Jazz (Oscar Peterson, Lou Rawls "Stormy Monday" stuff), to
    5) Groove Swing (Gene Harris), to
    6) The Blues (not "slow dance music," but "The Blues," like Stevie Ray Vaughn, Snooky Pryor, Pinetop Perkins), to
    7) Westie-type music (not just The Blues, but also Country, Funk, and even Disco), and then to
    8 ) Rock or Hip Hop with a Swing Rhythm
Each stage except the first took a few years for me to develop, explore, and enjoy the stage. During the first three stages (especially 2 and 3), I convinced myself that I had found and cornered the market on "real" Lindy Hop music. I also started DJing during the vintage stage to fill a void in the Chicago music scene, which enabled and secured my arrogance; the only other consistent DJ in Chicago at the time (at Liquid) played mostly Rockabilly and Neo Swing, so I was considered a "savior" of sorts by playing "real" Lindy Hop music.

After the small group stage, I became less resistant to new influences because I had resisted the shift to small group jazz so much, only to fall into it so hard. By the end, I was so "open minded" that I was playing some Eminem and Fleetwood Mac at Swing Dances, much to the consternation of some of the more vintage-inclined dancers who thought I had turned to the "dark side." (Namely, Westie; Not so--I have yet to don sequins, rhinestones, or tassles).

Another interesting twist: growing up in Chicago, I had always loved Electric Blues long before I learned to dance: Buddy Guy, Koko Taylor, Junior Wells, Son Seals. However, I couldn't grasp how to Lindy to it until I had been dancing for seven or eight years. I distinctly remember trying but dismissing Electric Blues for Lindy early on because it had the "wrong" kind of swing rhythm compared to the Swing Era vintage stuff. It had to be "Jump Blues" with a softer swing rhythm to work; anything else was just "Westie" dance music. But after I went deeply into the Groove stage, I reflected on the difference between "groove swing" and a lot of the Electric Blues I once considered impossible for Lindy; and I realized that the gap in my perception had closed. Soon, Electric Blues became a staple for me, and a whole new world of danceable music opened up.

The upshot is that not only do tastes completely change, but this evolution actualy helped keep things interesting for me. The very thing I once considered not only pragmatically-odd but morally-inappropriate for Lindy Hop eventually became my favorite music for dancing. I've also gotten to the point where I consider all of it--even Neo Swing--to have at least some great music for dancing, even if I might have my own personal preferences or moods now and then.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

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#13 Post by julius » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:15 pm

Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever DJed a dance/event with some of the oldtimers (Dawn, Frankie, Norma, etc.) and asked them afterwards what they thought about the music? I can't decide if they'd be brutally honest or polite, and also I'd be interested in hearing what their evolution in musical taste is like. (I've heard Dawn's lecture on bhangra.)

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#14 Post by trev » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:49 pm

julius wrote:Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever DJed a dance/event with some of the oldtimers (Dawn, Frankie, Norma, etc.) and asked them afterwards what they thought about the music? I can't decide if they'd be brutally honest or polite, and also I'd be interested in hearing what their evolution in musical taste is like. (I've heard Dawn's lecture on bhangra.)
Dawn is not afraid to tell it like she sees it. She was slamming the Seattle DJs after the Masters event for playing too much early jazz that doesn't (in her opinion) swing.

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#15 Post by Haydn » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:15 am

trev wrote:Dawn is not afraid to tell it like she sees it. She was slamming the Seattle DJs after the Masters event for playing too much early jazz that doesn't (in her opinion) swing.
Any idea which bands and periods she was referring to?

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