Charlie Barnet style music?

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy

Message
Author
User avatar
tornredcarpet
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

Charlie Barnet style music?

#1 Post by tornredcarpet » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:43 pm

I asked this around several forums but no one really knew.

I was looking for music in the style of Charlie Barnet? Anyone sound like him? Outstanding rhythm section, killer brass, you know.

Yeah, of course there's Ellington, but I have a lot of him already.

-Jesse

User avatar
trev
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:20 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

#2 Post by trev » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:47 pm

Charlie Barnet was particularly an admirer of Ellington and Basie, and consequently his music reflects this. His band has been referred to as the "blackest of the white bands".

Ellington and Basie would therefore be the obvious artists to check out (I'd recommend their late 30s / early 40s recordings first). You might also enjoy Jimmie Lunceford, Chick Webb & Lucky Millinder, but there are so many other great swinging big bands of the era that it's difficult to single out just a few.

A site like http://www.allmusic.com is useful for reading up about artists & their recordings and exploring other similar music.

User avatar
Eyeball
Posts: 1919
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 am
Contact:

#3 Post by Eyeball » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:25 pm

I gave you excellent answers to your question.

I named bands with "killer brass" and "outstanding rhythm sections". Did you follow up on them?

No band really sounds like another band unless they purposely attempt to....and few did back in the day....except Mickey Mouse bands. Most chose to have their own style, not copy someone elses.

And if you like Barnet, just get more Barnet...unless you have everything he recorded already.

And Ellington does not play in the style of Barnet, so going for more Ellington to hear 'Barnet style' won't get you that.

User avatar
tornredcarpet
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

#4 Post by tornredcarpet » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:27 pm

Oh! I seemed to have missed your reply. Thanks!

Earl Hines Trio? Never heard them, will check them out. Have some albums for me to listen to?
Which Dorsey? Tommy Dorsey is good, but often overplayed. I have (of Tommy Dorsey) Sentimental Dorsey, 1946-1947 chronological collection, Boogie Woogie, Tea for Two
Jimmy Dorsey I have nothing of.

I love Jimmie Lunceford stuff, but I seem to have trouble finding anywhere but Amazon. All I have is some random single songs I got off Itunes that I like.
Basie has some, I have the complete decca recordings (1937-1939), the count meets duke ellington, swinging the blues, Jam, April in Paris, Count Basie in Newport, the Verve Jazz Masters one, and the Complete Atomic Basie.
Ellington I have Ellington and Coltrane, the Gold Collection, Centennial Edition, and Such Sweet Thunder
Chick Webb I don't really like what I've heard, but someone may point me to a few choice albums....
Lucky Millinder I have had no exposure to.
Charlie Barnet I have Drop Me Off in Harlem and some random collection from Jazz Masters.


So I'm really looking for stuff along the lines like what Barnet did with the Moose, Skyliner, and Cherokee, Things Ain't What They Used to Be.
Very characteristic sound.

Does anyone remember who did swingmatism?

Campus Five
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

#5 Post by Campus Five » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:32 pm

Big Jay Mcshann
"I don''t dig that two beat jive the New Orleans cats play.
My boys and I have four heavy beats to the bar and no cheating!
--Count Basie
www.campusfive.com
www.myspace.com/campusfive
www.swingguitar.blogspot.com

User avatar
tornredcarpet
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

#6 Post by tornredcarpet » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:43 pm

Jay McShann?
I have a lot of Blues from Jay Mcshann that sounds a bit like Sonny Rollins....
Hooties Jumpin' Blues, Goin' To Kansas City, and Last of the Whorehouse Piano Players.
Wrong Jay Mcshann, I'm betting?

User avatar
tornredcarpet
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

#7 Post by tornredcarpet » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:51 pm

Jesse informs me otherwise. It's the same guy.
I just need to get the right time period of his stuff.
Jesse (Los Angeles, CA/Hampton Roads, VA)

User avatar
Eyeball
Posts: 1919
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 am
Contact:

#8 Post by Eyeball » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:19 pm

tornredcarpet wrote:Oh! I seemed to have missed your reply. Thanks!

Earl Hines Trio? Never heard them, will check them out. Have some albums for me to listen to?
Which Dorsey? Tommy Dorsey is good, but often overplayed. I have (of Tommy Dorsey) Sentimental Dorsey, 1946-1947 chronological collection, Boogie Woogie, Tea for Two
Jimmy Dorsey I have nothing of.

I love Jimmie Lunceford stuff, but I seem to have trouble finding anywhere but Amazon. All I have is some random single songs I got off Itunes that I like.
Basie has some, I have the complete decca recordings (1937-1939), the count meets duke ellington, swinging the blues, Jam, April in Paris, Count Basie in Newport, the Verve Jazz Masters one, and the Complete Atomic Basie.
Ellington I have Ellington and Coltrane, the Gold Collection, Centennial Edition, and Such Sweet Thunder
Chick Webb I don't really like what I've heard, but someone may point me to a few choice albums....
Lucky Millinder I have had no exposure to.
Charlie Barnet I have Drop Me Off in Harlem and some random collection from Jazz Masters.


So I'm really looking for stuff along the lines like what Barnet did with the Moose, Skyliner, and Cherokee, Things Ain't What They Used to Be.
Very characteristic sound.
Earl Hines big band 1939 -1940 -intense swing, great rhythm section, super well recorded. I posted a link in the other post where ever it was.

Tommy Dorsey, natch. Over played? No way. I wish. "Sentimental"? Kind of a tip off that it won't be the hot stuff.

TD band 1940 - 1942 - prime era. Brass that will rip you a new one. Killer trumpet section - ya know....Well, Git It? TD 1942. He has lots of instrumentals, mostly Sy Oliver arrangement from that era. Rhythm section has Buddy Rich on every track.

TD 1946 - 1947 is slipping out of the era for prime swing music. 46 - still good stuff. 47 - less good. After that, it's over. Top flight band, but too slick for it's own good.

It is really hard to pinpoint someone who "sounds" like someone b/c no one wanted to sound like someone. They wanted to sound like themselves.

You will like any TD instrumental circa 1940 - 1942....good luck findingthem. There has never been a comprehensive reissue of his stuff from that era. The famous BlueBird/RCA LP reissue series stopped right in 1939...just as they were getting to the great stuff.

User avatar
kitkat
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 10:34 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

#9 Post by kitkat » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:01 am

John, could you give us some tips about which albums can at least help us collect a good chunk of 1940-1942 Tommy Dorsey stuff?

Thanks!

Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

Re: Charlie Barnet style music?

#10 Post by Haydn » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:44 am

tornredcarpet wrote:I was looking for music in the style of Charlie Barnet? Anyone sound like him? Outstanding rhythm section, killer brass, you know.
Music like late 30s/early 40s Charlie Barnet?

I agree with John that some Earl Hines tracks might interest you. "Ridin' And Jivin'" for example, is a great swingin' number with some punchy brass -
http://tinyurl.co.uk/v1bv

The CDs with that track on aren't available from the popular online sites at the moment, but you can probably find some Earl Hines big band CDs if you are prepared to look around and pay a premium. (Earl Hines is generally known as a pianist, but I can't hear any piano on a lot of these tracks - perhaps he was just the 'bandleader/conductor' for these?)

I agree that Tommy Dorsey is worth checking out, and I'd also say Glenn Miller. Miller certainly has great brass sounds, even if the rhythmic drive is sometimes lacking.

zzzzoom
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

#11 Post by zzzzoom » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 am

There is some early Glenn Miller (before he found his 'sound') that is kick ass!

Check out the cd The Spirit is Willing

Carribean Clipper
Sliphorn Jive
Slow Freight
Here We Go Again
Rug Cutter's Swing
Sun Valley Jump

I regularly dj all of these tracks.

Campus Five
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

#12 Post by Campus Five » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:20 am

Don't forget about Glen Island Special!

What's funny is that "Caribbean Clipper" was arranged by Jerry Gray, and "GIS" was arranged by Eddie Durham, who worked for Shaw and Basie, respectively. No wonder those tracks are so good. Also, some of Miller's AAF band musicians were basically cherry picked from other bands, such as Ray McKinley. Some of those airchecks are pretty rockin' - there's a great version of "CC" with McKinley on drums really kickin' ass.

While I'd be the first to take pot shots at the Glenn Miller, there were times when that band could play. Not every version of that band sucked, just most of the sappy arrangments.
"I don''t dig that two beat jive the New Orleans cats play.
My boys and I have four heavy beats to the bar and no cheating!
--Count Basie
www.campusfive.com
www.myspace.com/campusfive
www.swingguitar.blogspot.com

User avatar
Eyeball
Posts: 1919
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 am
Contact:

#13 Post by Eyeball » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:32 am

zzzzoom wrote:There is some early Glenn Miller (before he found his 'sound') that is kick ass!

Check out the cd The Spirit is Willing

Carribean Clipper 1942
Sliphorn Jive 1939
Slow Freight 1940
Here We Go Again 1942
Rug Cutter's Swing 1940
Sun Valley Jump 1941

I regularly dj all of these tracks.
In reality, those were all recorded *after* he had found his sound. His 'sound' was in place by 1938.

*I added the recording dates up there.

Miller used more than one style in his band, and even the famous clarinet lead style was modified as the months and few years went out.

User avatar
Eyeball
Posts: 1919
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 am
Contact:

#14 Post by Eyeball » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:39 am

Campus Five wrote:Don't forget about Glen Island Special!

What's funny is that "Caribbean Clipper" was arranged by Jerry Gray, and "GIS" was arranged by Eddie Durham, who worked for Shaw and Basie, respectively. No wonder those tracks are so good. Also, some of Miller's AAF band musicians were basically cherry picked from other bands, such as Ray McKinley. Some of those airchecks are pretty rockin' - there's a great version of "CC" with McKinley on drums really kickin' ass.

While I'd be the first to take pot shots at the Glenn Miller, there were times when that band could play. Not every version of that band sucked, just most of the sappy arrangments.
Jerry Gray did a big portion of the Miller book, along with Bill Finegan, Miller himself, Billy May and George Williams.

Miller also has a couple other Durham charts, along with a few by Benny Carter.

Two of his favorite bands were Basie and Lunceford.

Jonatahn - it is totally unfair and misleading for you to say that 'most of the sappy arrangements sucked'. The arrangements were first rate as were many of the songs. You simply don't seem to like or appreciate pretty and oftimes beautiful ballads.

Your loss.

Maybe you'll grow into them someday.

User avatar
Eyeball
Posts: 1919
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 am
Contact:

#15 Post by Eyeball » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:42 am

zzzzoom wrote: Check out the cd The Spirit is Willing

Here We Go Again
My favorite part of that record is towards the latter part when the sax section comes in with some very snappy playing. Great arranging!

Locked