Saw this link off Fark...
http://www.turbulence.org/Works/song/index.html
It's rather neat, and there's one Ella piece in there and a couple Django. The program requires midi files though. I don't suppose any of you have anything else in midi format?
the shape of song
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Toon Town Dave
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MIDI is a communication protocol that allows one instrument to "play" another, and to provide for converting the timing and pitch into numbers. You can record a MIDI version of a real-time performance (e.g. piano) and play it back and essentially what you have is a player piano roll; a performance just like the original.
Of course synthetic instruments rarely sound as good as the original and there are difficulties with playing lots of notes at once and so on, but MIDI does not automatically mean "rinkydink music". But since it's digital and digital is trivial to crap out, 99.9999% of MIDI music available is crap.
Of course synthetic instruments rarely sound as good as the original and there are difficulties with playing lots of notes at once and so on, but MIDI does not automatically mean "rinkydink music". But since it's digital and digital is trivial to crap out, 99.9999% of MIDI music available is crap.
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Bob the Builder
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Yes, My friend who owns a recording studio, his Grand Piano in the studio has a MIDI functionn on it. So you can record your MIDI file at home on your crappy keyboard, and then bring it in to the studio. Send the MIDI file through the Grand Poano and do a proper Sound recording.julius wrote:MIDI is a communication protocol that allows one instrument to "play" another, and to provide for converting the timing and pitch into numbers. You can record a MIDI version of a real-time performance (e.g. piano) and play it back and essentially what you have is a player piano roll; a performance just like the original.
Of course synthetic instruments rarely sound as good as the original and there are difficulties with playing lots of notes at once and so on, but MIDI does not automatically mean "rinkydink music". But since it's digital and digital is trivial to crap out, 99.9999% of MIDI music available is crap.
It's kind of cool, but I don't know how often you would use it.
Brian
Because I've long had a fascination with reproducing pianos, band organs and other mechanical instruments, I am a fan of MIDI ... as a concept and technology.
But, DAMN! I have to go along with the observation that 99% of the MIDI stuff out there on the web is TOTAL CRAP. You need a license to drive, but any idiot can put out a really bad MIDI file and nobody will stop him. Some people just key in big band charts they buy at the music store. Why?
And some people at at the end user side of things are equally clueless. I once went for happy hour at a hotel lobby bar in the Chicago area that had purchased a top of the line concert grand reproducing piano with built-in MIDI. They obviously hired a cheesy hack cocktail pianist to come in one day and lay down about two hours of crap and apparently pushed the button every day to play it to the drinks crowd. They must have spent over $10,000 on the piano (to avoid actually having to pay for a live musician every afternoon) but were too cheap to spend a couple hundred dollars on MIDI files from QRS made from duo-art dynamic rolls cut by Fats Waller, Eubie Blake, George Gershin, etc.).
There IS some really good MIDI stuff out there but you have to dumpster dive through a lot of crap in order to find it. But when you do, it's great. Some people actually bother to figure out what things reproduce well from sound sampled instrument voices (stuff like piano, "hammond organ", vibrophone, drums, and electric guitar - if the input is a guitar synthesizer) and which almost never do (brass, especially) and take the time to orchestrate intelligently and in some cases actually compose and do it well. I have a particularly good blues/rock number based on the theme from Twilight Zone which truly kicks ass in my MIDI collection.
Question for hard core nerds out there (may sound strange): Is there a software tool out there that can capture output of the sound board playing a MIDI file to a digital format that can be written to audio CD? I'd like to transcode the Twilight Zone number and see how it works on the dance floor.
Irony: Probably the thing that would work best in MIDI is unavailable in that format ... Nancarrow's "Studies for Player Piano". His heirs have so far made sure none of this has become available that way ... quite possibly to protect their royalties. MIDI files are so easy to pass around these compositions would become defacto public domain within days if they handed over the rolls to QRS for transcoding and sale in MIDI format. They also may be concerned that someone would play the files through a cheap crappy board and $10 speakers.
But, DAMN! I have to go along with the observation that 99% of the MIDI stuff out there on the web is TOTAL CRAP. You need a license to drive, but any idiot can put out a really bad MIDI file and nobody will stop him. Some people just key in big band charts they buy at the music store. Why?
And some people at at the end user side of things are equally clueless. I once went for happy hour at a hotel lobby bar in the Chicago area that had purchased a top of the line concert grand reproducing piano with built-in MIDI. They obviously hired a cheesy hack cocktail pianist to come in one day and lay down about two hours of crap and apparently pushed the button every day to play it to the drinks crowd. They must have spent over $10,000 on the piano (to avoid actually having to pay for a live musician every afternoon) but were too cheap to spend a couple hundred dollars on MIDI files from QRS made from duo-art dynamic rolls cut by Fats Waller, Eubie Blake, George Gershin, etc.).
There IS some really good MIDI stuff out there but you have to dumpster dive through a lot of crap in order to find it. But when you do, it's great. Some people actually bother to figure out what things reproduce well from sound sampled instrument voices (stuff like piano, "hammond organ", vibrophone, drums, and electric guitar - if the input is a guitar synthesizer) and which almost never do (brass, especially) and take the time to orchestrate intelligently and in some cases actually compose and do it well. I have a particularly good blues/rock number based on the theme from Twilight Zone which truly kicks ass in my MIDI collection.
Question for hard core nerds out there (may sound strange): Is there a software tool out there that can capture output of the sound board playing a MIDI file to a digital format that can be written to audio CD? I'd like to transcode the Twilight Zone number and see how it works on the dance floor.
Irony: Probably the thing that would work best in MIDI is unavailable in that format ... Nancarrow's "Studies for Player Piano". His heirs have so far made sure none of this has become available that way ... quite possibly to protect their royalties. MIDI files are so easy to pass around these compositions would become defacto public domain within days if they handed over the rolls to QRS for transcoding and sale in MIDI format. They also may be concerned that someone would play the files through a cheap crappy board and $10 speakers.
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Cyrano de Maniac
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The easiest solution would be to loop the sound card's audio output back to the audio input, and fire up whatever audio capture software you use. Then just play the MIDI file. If you're really lucky, you'll have digitals outs and ins on the sound board so that you don't even't have to go through the analog-to-digital-to-analog conversion.Racetrack wrote:Question for hard core nerds out there (may sound strange): Is there a software tool out there that can capture output of the sound board playing a MIDI file to a digital format that can be written to audio CD? I'd like to transcode the Twilight Zone number and see how it works on the dance floor.
That said, I hope the instrument patches on sound cards have gotten better in the past ten years. Otherwise I'd look at running the MIDI signal over to a real instrument and recording off of that.
I do agree that well-arranged MIDI on a quality synthesizer can sound terrific. Unfortunately I haven't run into much of it, and as you said there's a lot of horrible tracks to sift through to find a few gems.
Brent
Cyrano .. Single cable jack from audio out to jack into audio in connection for capture? That simple? Can these boards play MIDI and capture at the same time? (In other words, have you tried this at home?) It would be great if it's that simple. I've never asked my soundboard if it's into the autoerotic thing so far ... too shy. 
As to voices ... most "name brand" boards (Yamaha, Sound Blaster, etc.) actually have pretty good wave sample libraries in their firmware. For a time SB used the same emu systems library they originally created for their Emulator keyboard system.
Gemzombie .. as to big band jazz arrangements ... I think the problem is the brass voices. For some reason sampled brass just doesn't recreate the sound of the original instrument on the way out. Perhaps because most people record MIDI with a keyboard and brass just doesn't work that way. Perhaps if someone invented a device that does for trumpet and trombone what a guitar synthesizer does for electric guitar things might be different ... but that requires the "programmer" to actually learn how to play brass instruments and most won't bother.
Jazz arrangements done with 'MIDI" friendly instrument voices like piano, vibes, drums, bass, and guitar sometimes come out quite well if the arrangement and musicianship are solid.
Perhaps one way to take a stab at big band stuff is to take advantage of the fact that the piano is itself a "band in a box" and comes across well in MIDI. Perhaps shifting the brass section parts over to a second piano track might come across better than trying to use sampled brass instruments. For this, the "concert grand" voice would work best I would expect.
Of course there is always the old fashioned approach ... use a band organ to make the music. I think some of them have functional brass instruments ... although a lot of "brass" is done with the organ pipes. Of course this is a kind of pricey solution and as much as I would LOVE to have a Bellefontaine top of the line band organ in my living room a lot of furniture would have to go to make room for it. (Of course when I am that rich I can probably afford a bigger house so I will dream on.)
As to voices ... most "name brand" boards (Yamaha, Sound Blaster, etc.) actually have pretty good wave sample libraries in their firmware. For a time SB used the same emu systems library they originally created for their Emulator keyboard system.
Gemzombie .. as to big band jazz arrangements ... I think the problem is the brass voices. For some reason sampled brass just doesn't recreate the sound of the original instrument on the way out. Perhaps because most people record MIDI with a keyboard and brass just doesn't work that way. Perhaps if someone invented a device that does for trumpet and trombone what a guitar synthesizer does for electric guitar things might be different ... but that requires the "programmer" to actually learn how to play brass instruments and most won't bother.
Jazz arrangements done with 'MIDI" friendly instrument voices like piano, vibes, drums, bass, and guitar sometimes come out quite well if the arrangement and musicianship are solid.
Perhaps one way to take a stab at big band stuff is to take advantage of the fact that the piano is itself a "band in a box" and comes across well in MIDI. Perhaps shifting the brass section parts over to a second piano track might come across better than trying to use sampled brass instruments. For this, the "concert grand" voice would work best I would expect.
Of course there is always the old fashioned approach ... use a band organ to make the music. I think some of them have functional brass instruments ... although a lot of "brass" is done with the organ pipes. Of course this is a kind of pricey solution and as much as I would LOVE to have a Bellefontaine top of the line band organ in my living room a lot of furniture would have to go to make room for it. (Of course when I am that rich I can probably afford a bigger house so I will dream on.)
Trivia (while we are on the subject of mechanical reproduction). The ULTIMATE piano reproducing technology, the Welte-Mignon Reproducing Piano. Actually "Welte-Mignon" is short for some VERY long German word that roughly means "stands in front of a piano and plays it". The device is basically an 88 finger robot that plays a concert grand. The recording system has something to do with electrodes that dip into pools of mercury, thus capturing a true analog signal of the dynamics of the key press (duo-art technology only approximates the dynamic range .. I think it represents key impact using numbers between 1 and 12).
http://mmd.foxtail.com/Pictures/Welte/
Unfortunately the LP "Legendary Masters of the Piano" recorded in the sessions described in this web site seems to be out of print and is a very rare recording. (If anyone knows about a CD of this, post it here!)
Additional trivia: Did a web search on the guy who did the LP recordings of Welte-Mignon "Legendary Masters" rolls, Richard Simonton Jr. This is a FASCINATING guy who not only did this, but also founded the American Theatre Organ Society AND was instrumental at one time in the 1950's in saving the steamboat company that owned and operated the Delta Queen from bankruptcy by purchasing it with his own private funds (possibly because the Delta Queen has a big steam calliope). He got all this money by being a big executive at Muzak (nobody's perfect). And, according to his bio on Wikipedia he led a second "secret life" in the California gay BDSM community at a time when "gay" and "BDSM" were considered even more controversial than they are today.
Everything he accomplished and advocated seems to still be happening (Delta Queen, kink scene) with one major exception. NOBODY has stepped up to the plate to make his classic LP of recordings of legendary piano masters (including Debussy, Ravel, Grieg, Mahler, and Richard Stauss playing their own compositions) available to collectors in the 21st century. This is a horrible tragedy that must have him spinning in his grave right now. Perhaps some kind soul will eventually step up to the plate and rectify the situation.
http://mmd.foxtail.com/Pictures/Welte/
Unfortunately the LP "Legendary Masters of the Piano" recorded in the sessions described in this web site seems to be out of print and is a very rare recording. (If anyone knows about a CD of this, post it here!)
Additional trivia: Did a web search on the guy who did the LP recordings of Welte-Mignon "Legendary Masters" rolls, Richard Simonton Jr. This is a FASCINATING guy who not only did this, but also founded the American Theatre Organ Society AND was instrumental at one time in the 1950's in saving the steamboat company that owned and operated the Delta Queen from bankruptcy by purchasing it with his own private funds (possibly because the Delta Queen has a big steam calliope). He got all this money by being a big executive at Muzak (nobody's perfect). And, according to his bio on Wikipedia he led a second "secret life" in the California gay BDSM community at a time when "gay" and "BDSM" were considered even more controversial than they are today.
Everything he accomplished and advocated seems to still be happening (Delta Queen, kink scene) with one major exception. NOBODY has stepped up to the plate to make his classic LP of recordings of legendary piano masters (including Debussy, Ravel, Grieg, Mahler, and Richard Stauss playing their own compositions) available to collectors in the 21st century. This is a horrible tragedy that must have him spinning in his grave right now. Perhaps some kind soul will eventually step up to the plate and rectify the situation.
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Cyrano de Maniac
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I've never tried it, and I'll wager it depends on the particular sound card as to whether it is capable of MIDI synthesis with simultaneous audio input. From an electrical standpoint it will definitely be just fine.Racetrack wrote:Single cable jack from audio out to jack into audio in connection for capture? That simple? Can these boards play MIDI and capture at the same time? (In other words, have you tried this at home?) It would be great if it's that simple.
If nothing else you should be able to cable seperate sound cards (whether in a single machine, or seperate machines) together and accomplish this. But pay attention to ground loops if you go the multi-machine route -- at a minimum try to plug both machines into a single power strip.
1996 is about the last time I used sound card generated MIDI output. At that time this newfangled "General MIDI" standard was getting all the attention, and I believe wavetable synthesis was just starting to appear on consumer boards. I imagine the quality is much better now than what I witnessed at that time.Racetrack wrote:As to voices ... most "name brand" boards (Yamaha, Sound Blaster, etc.) actually have pretty good wave sample libraries in their firmware.
Brent
Cyrano - what you were using in that 1996 sound board was what you get if you set the board to "FM Synthesis" ... basically the same thing that the old Moog synthesizer did. Every FM synthesis voice is "built" using sine waves, triangle waves and square waves. What you get never sounds like a real instrument exactly ... what comes out always sounds like "an electronic music synthesizer".
So always make sure your sound board is set to use the sampled sounds (that should be the default setting) when you play MIDI files ... unless you have a tin ear and a strong stomach.
(Most boards these days seem to use the Yamaha sampled sound library .. pretty much as good as the Emu Systems library.)
Gee, I think I'll listen to a couple tunes now ...
So always make sure your sound board is set to use the sampled sounds (that should be the default setting) when you play MIDI files ... unless you have a tin ear and a strong stomach.
(Most boards these days seem to use the Yamaha sampled sound library .. pretty much as good as the Emu Systems library.)
Gee, I think I'll listen to a couple tunes now ...