Remastered Duke Ellington

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KevinSchaper · #16 Post by **KevinSchaper** » Mon May 19, 2003 10:01 pm

KevinSchaper wrote:bn.com has samples for the whole centennial ellingtonian avalance

Wow - maybe I take that back, bn.com had samples this weekend, now they don't even list it for sale.

--edit:

I did my comparison, and the centennial remasters totally win. I'll take those pretty highs that they seemed to get outta nowhere (seriously, how many trumpet solos have you heard in that stuff that you never noticed before?) over fake stereo any day. (it actually isn't bad fake stereo.. but...eh)

google's french translation is fun tho.

I'm *definitely* gonna request "Tail Knitting Machine" sometime.. "you know, for that rad ben webster solo"

Greg Avakian · #17 Post by **Greg Avakian** » Tue May 20, 2003 9:45 am

Rayned, you should have E-mailed me; I didn't even see this till now.

A/B ing the samples is interesting; Dreyfus seems much "truer" -the sound seems very rich and even throughout the spectrum. The Centennial production seems artificially "bright", but I like that. Both samples are lacking in the 'low' end, but same goes for the Dreyfus CD. BTW, that is the version of "Cotton tail" I played at NADC.

The silly thing of course is that the Dreyfus version sounds so much better as a CD from my stereo than either the Dreyfus or the Centential samples off my computer.

I got the CD from my Dad since the producers sent him one.

Mike · #18 Post by **Mike** » Tue May 20, 2003 12:51 pm

Lawrence wrote:The main thing I was bemoaning is that Duke recorded dozens of versions of A Train, Mellow Tone, and many others, both live and in studio "Big Band revival" recordings... why not dozens of Jack the Bear and Ko-Ko from the Blanton Webster Era when they were playing with dissonance and more complex melodies that really worked? Somewhat like how The Who recorded "Tommy" live several times for commercial releases, but never recorded "Quadrophenia" live, even though the latter is (in my opinion) a much better rock opera. Why, pray, tell, WHY?!?!?!

Duke, while being an artist through and through, still admitted he was obligated to play what the audiences wanted to hear. If that meant playing mostly old hits, he was more than willing to do that because the audience was so important to him. Later on he occasionally got the 'favorites' out of the way by just playing like seven of them in a medley. But to get back to your question, it may have been because the recordings were not as commercially successful as those other songs, or because they were not recognizable by the audience.

Lawrence · #19 Post by **Lawrence** » Tue May 20, 2003 12:57 pm

Mike wrote:
Lawrence wrote: Why, pray, tell, WHY?!?!?!
Duke, while being an artist through and through, still admitted he was obligated to play what the audiences wanted to hear. * * * * it may have been because the recordings were not as commercially successful as those other songs, or because they were not recognizable by the audience.

Yes, exactly. I'm just whining and bitching and moaning about it.

main_stem · #20 Post by **main_stem** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:08 pm

Mike wrote: Duke, while being an artist through and through, still admitted he was obligated to play what the audiences wanted to hear. If that meant playing mostly old hits, he was more than willing to do that because the audience was so important to him.

Or maybe he thought those particular songs were just fine the way they were recoded. Just another thought.

CafeSavoy · #21 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:14 pm

main_stem wrote:
Mike wrote: Duke, while being an artist through and through, still admitted he was obligated to play what the audiences wanted to hear. If that meant playing mostly old hits, he was more than willing to do that because the audience was so important to him.
Or maybe he thought those particular songs were just fine the way they were recoded. Just another thought.

i doubt that but i get the impression that many of the songs were specific to particular players and their talents. so i wonder if some songs weren't redone because of changes in the mix of talents in the band. since some songs were vehicles for particular musicians, those songs got played as long as they were in the band. although some songs did get passed on to other artists.

main_stem · #22 Post by **main_stem** » Tue May 20, 2003 5:35 pm

Since none of us ever knew Duke I doubt we'll ever know why some songs never were rerecorded. KoKo adn Jack the Bear were specific vehicles for Blanton. This could be another reason why they never got redone in large fashion.

Greg Avakian · #23 Post by **Greg Avakian** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:43 am

If anyone is interested in getting either of the Dreyfus CDs, I am looking into ordering some for myself and friends. I'm not going to make any money on this, I just thought some of you who are Ellington fans would want these.
I have no idea how much they will cost, so assume they will be pricey since they are not imported to the US. I'd guess less than $25 since we would be getting them directly from the company. I'm assuming $25 because there is the cost of the CD, shipping to the US and then me shipping to you. Who knows, it might be really cheap because they are cool people -I just don't know.

I've sold CDs in the past and it has been a pain in the butt, so if you're not really interested, or you only want them if they cost $10 or whatever, don't bug me about it. When I inquire, they will ask me how many I want and I want to be able to tell them right away. I don't want to get into a whole negotiation thing about if it's $X I'll buy this many and then have to get back to everyone, ask if the price is OK and then wait for responses... I hope you understand I'm not being bitchy, i just want to make this simple.

I'd rather just bite the bullet and get it done quickly. If you're interested, write me and I'll try to place an order by July 1st.

Greg
SwingboyPA@aol.com

Lawrence · #24 Post by **Lawrence** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:02 am

Greg Avakian wrote:If anyone is interested in getting either of the Dreyfus CDs, I am looking into ordering some for myself and friends. I'm not going to make any money on this, I just thought some of you who are Ellington fans would want these.

Thanks for doing the legwork, Greg.

I'm definitely interested, but I'm still not clear whether the Dreyfus editions improve on the sound quality of the Centennial Edition re-mastering. I have the 24-disc RCA Centennial Edition set, and, as I noted, the Centennial Edition re-mastering blew away the re-mastering on the Blanton-Webster set for these songs. Also, Peter MacHare on that website did say that the Dreyfus re-releases contains all previously released material, so the only reason to get them would be for improved sound quality. (Enough of a reason for me because these CDs contain my favorite Duke songs.) He mentions that the sound quality on the Dreyfus releases is an amazing improvement over what he had heard before, but doesn't say WHAT it is an improvement on: the Blanton Webster stuff or the Centennial Edition stuff.

Rayned mentioned that you already had a copy of these Dreyfus CDs. Have you (or anyone else) compared them to the Centennial Edition re-mastering? Sorry for the nit-picking,

but I don't want to spend $50 to get the exact same thing as I already have.

I e-mailed the guy who wrote that webpage (Peter MacHare, apparently from Belgium), and will let you know what his answer is if I get one.

Greg Avakian · #25 Post by **Greg Avakian** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:58 am

My Dad has the RCA Centennial Edition and when I reached for it he said check this out (Dreyfuss) it's better. I'm not sure how true that is since I didn't A/B them. My dad is 84 and his hearing isn't what it used to be. I'm curious what MacHare says, so please do post when you get an answer.

Mr Awesomer · #26 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:02 am

It's for sure better then the RCA releases (in their multitude of forms)... but I've got some Robert Parker stuff I have yet to compare it too.

Lawrence · #27 Post by **Lawrence** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:21 pm

GuruReuben wrote:It's for sure better then the RCA releases (in their multitude of forms)... but I've got some Robert Parker stuff I have yet to compare it too.

Do you have a copy of these Dreyfus editions, Reuben, or are you just knee-jerk dissing RCA?

Have you A-B compared the Centennial Edition to the Dreyfus?

Lawrence · #28 Post by **Lawrence** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:29 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:Also Ellington did re-record Koko and Jack the Bear in 1956 on a cd called Historically Speaking.

FYI, follow-up on this CD. Thanks again to Rayned for letting me know about it. The versions of Jack the Bear and Ko-Ko were both disappointing, which is a shame because that was primarily what I was looking for. The bass player seems to try too hard to NOT be Blanton on "Jack," and they played Ko-Ko up-tempo, which loses most of its dissonant subtleties.

However, there's a happy ending, after all, because most of the other songs on the CD are phenomenal, especially the re-release of the dirges, East St. Louis Toodle-oo, Creole Love Call. "Stompy Jones" and "This Jeep Is Jumpin" are also phenomenal: great energy and sound. I'm talkin' good enough to turn out the lights, turn up your finest home stereo, and get swept away kinda phenomenal!

Mr Awesomer · #29 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:45 pm

Lawrence wrote: Do you have a copy of these Dreyfus editions, Reuben, or are you just knee-jerk dissing RCA? Have you A-B compared the Centennial Edition to the Dreyfus?

Greg gave me a copy of the Dreyfus for comparison purposes. After hearing it I know it's better then the RCA... no A/B required (I have and use the RCA constantly.) I do however need to compare it to my Robert Parker cleaned up recordings, as these two will be very close.

Lawrence · #30 Post by **Lawrence** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:00 pm

Greg Avakian wrote: I'm curious what MacHare says, so please do post when you get an answer.

He sent me a rather quick response:

"I thought the Dreyfus was considerably better than the
Centennial Edition. Dreyfus can be hard to find. Try
the French amazon.com. I believe there are links for
the foreign amazon.com from the U.S. page."

There are such links. The French page has the Ko-Ko CD listed at 14.35 Euros.