Does anyone seriously think Chick Webb had a great band?

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Eyeball · #1 Post by **Eyeball** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:26 pm

So asked a noted writer on the swing scene and swing music and such.

I replied, "Yes".

I will try and get him over here if he cares to continue the conversation.

Mr Awesomer · #2 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:52 pm

I'd actually consider his to be an average band.
It's his stomping grounds that made him great.

Campus Five · #3 Post by **Campus Five** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:06 pm

Chick himself was a great drummer.

Eyeball · #4 Post by **Eyeball** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:44 pm

"Great" is a cheesy word. He had first class soloists, his section work was good, charts were good, Ella, drums.

trev · #5 Post by **trev** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:37 pm

Depends how you measure 'great'.

Respect by peers, critics or audience?
Ability to cut other bands in contests?
Technical proficiency?
Legacy/innovations they brought to music?
Record sales?
Punctuality and dress sense?

Eyeball · #6 Post by **Eyeball** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:17 am

True.

So will anyone argue that Chick Webb had an excellent band?

Albert System · #7 Post by **Albert System** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:22 am

Chick did not have a band that anyone would call "smooth", and a lot of his recordings have some sloppiness in the section parts.

However, those flaws are more than made up for by the energy and drive that the band had- which obviously eminated from the drum kit!

So I think when you judge the Chick Webb Orch, you have to look at it from that perspective, and appreciate it for what it is.

BTW- I think this is true of most all music. Much of it depends what you are looking for, or what you are attracted to.

Jerry_Jelinek · #8 Post by **Jerry_Jelinek** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:23 pm

Some of the big band things I like, some of them I'm not as fond of.

But I have heard maybe 4 or 5 cuts of his small group performances. These were with a subset of his large band. Very much in the John Kirby style and these are my favorite Chick Webb recordings.

The few tracks I've heard are on the large 40 CD set:

http://www.swingdjs.com/phpbb2/viewtopi ... ght=#14242

The 2 CD set of Chick Webb has these small chamber group recordings.

Does anyone know of other CDs with the small group of Chick Webb? I'd love to find more music of this group.

Haydn · #9 Post by **Haydn** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:47 am

Albert System wrote:Chick did not have a band that anyone would call "smooth", and a lot of his recordings have some sloppiness in the section parts.

However, those flaws are more than made up for by the energy and drive that the band had- which obviously eminated from the drum kit! .

From a dance point of view, the energy is vital. I love the energy of tracks like:

'Tain't What You Do

Lindy Hopper's Delight

Breaking 'Em Down

mousethief · #10 Post by **mousethief** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:23 pm

Strictly on craft, it was an okeh band.
On showmanship and impact, it was exceptional.

Kalman

kitkat · #11 Post by **kitkat** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:48 pm

Sorry, but I don't think Chick should get as much credit for the overall band's energy as some people here have given him.

Why has nobody mentioned the arrangements? They're about as accessible as you can get w/o becoming cheesy (mostly white band) 40's music.

The call and response, harmonies, and syncopation of the hits are amazing.
Shaw sometimes had it just as good, Basie did less often but was so prolific that you can probably find an equal number of tracks that've got it (Shorty George comes to mind off the top of my head as an example), the Hawkins CD (Classics Chronogical 37-39) I listened to today had it in lots of tracks, etc.
In other words, the trait is not unique to Webb's recordings. However, I think one reason Webb stands out to us dance DJs is that the percentage of his songs that are extremely well arranged for dance-energy is very high.

P.S. I'd like to give credit to a musician friend of mine for helping me find the musical analysis words I wanted to say.

Albert System · #12 Post by **Albert System** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:38 am

A lot of those arragements were done by Fletcher Hendersen, and they are incredible. You are right- the book itself is a part of the attraction for the Webb Orch.

Eyeball · #13 Post by **Eyeball** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:29 pm

Albert System wrote:A lot of those arragements were done by Fletcher Hendersen, and they are incredible. You are right- the book itself is a part of the attraction for the Webb Orch.

Are you sure about that? Smack doing charts for Chick? I know he was using Van Alexander and Larry Clinton and others. I just don't recall reading references to FH doing a lot of the CW book.

All this is from memory, so please correct me if I am wrong.

I'll try and read some of my off line reference stuff later.

BTW -For a great read, try and find the old Columbia LP or CD that was issued under Webb's name. It has sensation liner notes by Baron Timmie Rosenkrantz, a royal from Denmark and a major swing fan. The first thing he did when he got off the boat in 1934 in NYC was head up to Harlem and the Savoy Ballroom. His recounting of the tale is really great! He remembered it like it was yesterday.

If you cant find it, I will scan it off the LP and pop it on here.

GemZombie · #14 Post by **GemZombie** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:42 am

Coincidentally, Proper has released a full box set of Chick Webb Tunes.

http://www.propermusic.com/products.asp ... ROPERBOX97

Spiffy.

Jerry_Jelinek · #15 Post by **Jerry_Jelinek** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:58 am

Thanks for spotting this new Proper Set. There are a few more of the small group things in it.

"Chick Webb and his Little Chicks" is the group name.