Hi, My Name is Gary...

[Mr Awesomer]

From www.m-w.com

Neo - 1 a : new : recent

Retro - : relating to, reviving, or being the styles and especially the fashions of the past : fashionably nostalgic or old-fashioned

That said, "Neo" is much more accurate term to describe what you're talking about here. "Retro" would be bands like Bill Elliot, George Gee and Mora's recreating music of the past.

PS. The good folks at allmusic.com aren't exactly English scholars.

[GemZombie]

I always thought Neo was a fairly accessable term for the style of music we talk about even if it's not exact.

And ya, Allmusic is a great source for listening to bits of music and even looking up albums, but i've found many mistakes... so don't put too much stock in their bios/descriptions. All of that is subjective anyway.

[Bob the Builder]

That all is well and good, but allmusic's definition of what Retro Swing doesn’t allow for confusion. I've come across bands like the ones you have mentioned, been called Neo simply because there is not a good definition of what Neo-Swing is? I have a pet hate for using terminology I can't reference.
If anyone can find a better source for a definition than Allmusic I'm happy to change my terminology.
In regard to mistakes on all music, yes it has loads. With 850,000 album enteries I'd expect mistakes. It still is the number place that most of us go when looking for music information.

allmusic retro swing

Brian

[Mr Awesomer]

That all is well and good, but allmusic's definition of what Retro Swing doesn’t allow for confusion.

If that we're the case, we wouldn't be disagreeing, now would we?

[Bob the Builder]

We've got to have something to disagree about, otherwise we might have very little to talk about.

Brian

[GemZombie]

Retro Swing is a horrible term. Like Reuben says it implies trying to recreate something.. All music is just pulling that definition out of their ass. Neo means new, and the Swing of the 90's was definitely a new thing.

No one I know uses that to describe the music they are referring to... and a term only sticks when people continue to use it for years. Neo Swing has already become the acceptable term. At least in this country.

Why must it be written somewhere to be accepted to you? If that's the case, then SwingDJs is now your written source

[Gary]

...and I like neo-swing.

... what is it about neo-swing that makes experienced DJs and dancers revile it so much?

...could you please list some examples of neo-swing tracks you like (song and artist)?

The usual ones, of course, from '98: BBVD, "Y&M&BM3", "The Boogie Bumper"; CPD, "ZSR", "No Mercy for Swine". Big Rude Jake, "Gotham City Serenade"; Atomic Fireballs, "Caviar and Chitlins"; Blues Jumpers, "Wheels Start Turning". Two neo bands that I really like presently: Eight to the Bar, "My Body's Got a Mind of Its Own", "Why Can't You Dance with Me Like That?", "The Shelf"; and Love Dogs, "Much Later", "Wrong Lake to Catch a Fish". Also, Devil Doll, "Liquor Store", but it's stretching it to call that one neo; I just think people who dance to neo would also like dancing to that one. Since you're UK, I'll also offer The Big Six, "Rock and Roll Nightmare", and Dave Taylor, "Boogie in the City". (Would you count Taylor as neo?)

Some of these, of course, I'm a little tired of, but I liked when I first heard them. Also, these are kind of just off the top of my head. I could go on for a very, very long time.


-Gary-

[Gary]

>>I stay in it for the dancing (I like ECS, lindy, bal, and I'm learning a little shag) and because I simply don't fit into the rockabilly scene. If rockabillies (?) were a little more conventional and danced more and with greater variety, I might feel more comfortable and spend more time there.

...From my experience, the Rockabilly scene is, from the cities where I have sampled it, quite a bit more social than the swing scenes tend to be. The dancing isn't the only thing going on for it. ...You don't go to rockabilly nights because they don't shag or bal?

True, there is more to the scene than the music, but that's the only overlap between them and me. And it's not that they don't bal or shag; very few dance at all, from what I've seen. Those who do only know ECS, and not very much. I love rockabilly, I love ECS, and I love dancing with beginners, but I don't want to do that all night long. I'd like a little more variety over the course of the evening.

[Gary]

Neo Swing often hits you over the head with the beat. That's fun sometimes. Rock music is like that... but that only lasts so long before it gets old. I became more interested in the full rhythm rather than just the "thunk thunk thunk" of a bass and wailing on the drums.

Are you saying the "full rhythm" lasts longer [ie, doesn't get old (as quickly)] because there's more variety to it than a rock beat, or because it has more staying power just by its nature?

-Gary-

[Gary]

Indigo Swing are one of the few 'new' swing bands I quite like ....It would be interesting to know from Gary which neo-swing tracks he likes

I do like Indigo Swing (and also Johnny Boyd's solo album). You mentioned two slower, swingier songs. I do like them, but I also like the faster ones, too. The only one that comes to mind that I don't like is the title track from "Red Light!". I find the breaks just too awkward.

Also, I'm never quite sure how to label Indigo Swing. They're not rock, so they don't count as "neo" as originally defined in this thread, but they don't try to "faithfully recreate" the original music from that era (how I usually define "retro swing").

-Gary-

[Gary]

You say you're in a small market. Are you the only DJ there? Or is there someone else with similar or different tastes than you.

No, there are a few DJs here. But, like most of the DJs on this board, they shy away from neo and play more traditional swing, jazz, and blues. I think I'm the only one to feature neo heavily in his sets.

What's the makeup of the crowd? I'm assuming mostly beginners, but is it older or younger?

The crowd is pretty evenly split between young (college, 20-something) and older (40+). There are a handful in their 60's or older. Maybe half come out less than once a week. Most have probably never been to an exchange or even know what one is. The number of hard-core dancers is ... 20ish, maybe? That range, depending on how hard you define hard-core.

What songs do you play that keep the floor full?

I haven't done it long or often enough to have that sort of stable of songs. I'm still in a feeling-out phase, trying to learn what those songs are.

-Gary-

[Gary]

I hate using the word Neo. I’ve never seen any reliable source define it, and thus the terminology can lead to confusion. However “Retro Swing” has been defined on Allmusic.com

Yes, I have heard different people use these two terms to mean very different things. I included in my first post a quick-and-dirty definition of what I meant by neoswing, for the purposes of this thread, to make sure everybody knew what I meant, even if you all a used different word.

I have been in other forums where some people's biggest complaint about neoswing seems to be the name itself; it's not "swing", it shouldn't be called anything that has the word "swing" in it. I was wondering if that point would be raised here. I'm very happy to see every single post has had something far more constructive to offer than that.

-Gary-

[GemZombie]

Neo Swing often hits you over the head with the beat. That's fun sometimes. Rock music is like that... but that only lasts so long before it gets old. I became more interested in the full rhythm rather than just the "thunk thunk thunk" of a bass and wailing on the drums.

Are you saying the "full rhythm" lasts longer [ie, doesn't get old (as quickly)] because there's more variety to it than a rock beat, or because it has more staying power just by its nature?

-Gary-

I'm saying that being hit over the head with a loud base and snare isn't my idea of good rhythm. Sure it drives, but it gets annoying real quick in my opinion. Jazz and swing are more subtle than that, so the Neo Swing Rock edge just doesn't appeal to me very long.

I'll sound like a snob here: Beginners enjoy this stuff because they can feel the beat easier. More experienced dancers want to go beyond that and start dancing to the entire Rhythm, not just the drums. Rhythm is more than just one instrument, it's all of it combined.

Don't get me started on Electric bass... hardly any neo swing bands used an acoustic upright... and the ones that did (Setzer), usually played with rock/rockabily style.

If you can go beyond just the drums and start feeling the entire rhythm, you have more to dance to.

[Haydn]

...and I like neo-swing.

... what is it about neo-swing that makes experienced DJs and dancers revile it so much?

...could you please list some examples of neo-swing tracks you like (song and artist)?

The usual ones, of course, from '98: BBVD, "Y&M&BM3", "The Boogie Bumper"; CPD, "ZSR", "No Mercy for Swine". Big Rude Jake, "Gotham City Serenade"; Atomic Fireballs, "Caviar and Chitlins"; Blues Jumpers, "Wheels Start Turning". Two neo bands that I really like presently: Eight to the Bar, "My Body's Got a Mind of Its Own", "Why Can't You Dance with Me Like That?", "The Shelf"; and Love Dogs, "Much Later", "Wrong Lake to Catch a Fish". Also, Devil Doll, "Liquor Store", but it's stretching it to call that one neo; I just think people who dance to neo would also like dancing to that one. Since you're UK, I'll also offer The Big Six, "Rock and Roll Nightmare", and Dave Taylor, "Boogie in the City". (Would you count Taylor as neo?)

Some of these, of course, I'm a little tired of, but I liked when I first heard them. Also, these are kind of just off the top of my head. I could go on for a very, very long time.


-Gary-

These ones?

Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00000DFDK
Track 1 - The Boogie Bumper
Track 5 - You & Me & The Bottle Makes 3 Tonight (Baby)

Cherry Poppin' Daddies
Zoot Suit Riot: The Swingin' Hits of the Cherry Poppin' Daddies
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B000005B00
Track 1 - Zoot Suit Riot
Track 12 - No Mercy For Swine

Big Rude Jake
Big Rude Jake
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00006ZSWX
Track 1 - Gotham City Serenade

Atomic Fireballs
Torch This Place
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00000IPXL
Track 4 - Caviar & Chitlins

The Blues Jumpers
Swing Explosion (compilation)
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/ ... 7029&ITM=2
Track 3 - Wheels Start Turning

Eight To The Bar

Beat Me Rocking
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00000ILVJ
Track 3 - My Body's Got A Mind Of Its Own

Hey Sailor!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00005Q3D0
Track 5 - Why Can't You Dance with Me Like That?

Superhero Swinger Undercover
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/ ... 2329&ITM=1
Track 8 - The Shelf

Love Dogs

I'm Yo Dog
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B000003A0W
Track 5 - Much Later

Heavy Petting
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00000AFD8
Track 6 - Wrong Lake To Catch a Fish

Devil Doll
Queen of Pain
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/ ... RK=8133482
Track 12 - Liquor Store

[Roy]

I have to admit I still like Indigo Swing even though a lot of there stuff is clearly boogie woogie and not neo swing. I also like RCR. But I dislike all the rest of the neo swing stuff. But I, like many others started swing dancing in the first place to neo swing in the neo swing hey day of 97 and 98. Without it I don't know if I ever would have started swing dancing in the first place.