Swing/Jazz Music for Critical Listening

Message

wheresmygravy · #1 Post by **wheresmygravy** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:29 pm

Okay, here is a question about swing music from another perspective. I have recently gone to work for a home entertainment company and have as part of my responsibilities, selling higher end stereo gear.

In this process, I have many occasions to demonstrate high quality material and I would like to have some great small group jazz and swing recordings.

Anyone have recommendations of high quality CD recordings that have clearly defined sound stages when you listen to them on a really good system. You know the type where you can close your eyes and actually place where each of the musicians is on the stage.

This will obviously mean recording from the last several decades, or remasters where they have done a great job of restoring from the original tapes. I am not really looking for SACD or DVD Audio, but if you have recommendations along that line, I am all ears.

Thanks,
Jerry

Charleston Charlie · #2 Post by **Charleston Charlie** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:30 pm

A number of artists did "Big Band In Hi-Fi" recordings in the 1950s - Tommy Dorsey, for one. So far as I can recall, they are only available on 33 RPM.

A number of bands recorded on 33 RPM in the late 50s, and they made some fine recordings. Ellington, Basie, Goodman and others. If you can find someone who has them and is willing to convert them to MP3, then that would be cool.

Otherwise, the LCJO recordings might be what you are looking for.

As far as the best quality remastering of old recordings, I reccomend the Jazz Oracle label http://www.jazzoracle.com

swing-o-logy · #3 Post by **swing-o-logy** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:56 pm

Try 2The Big 18", a bunch of veterans from the 30s and 40s Swing-era, who recorded a lot for RCA VICTOR in the late 50's (STEREO), or the Billy May work for TIME LIFE, re-recordings of the great Swing-songbook!

Mr Awesomer · #4 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:23 pm

Nothing from the 50's is going to meet his needs. Do 50's recording sound better then 30's recordings? Yes. Do they sell high end sound equipment? No.

My suggestion would be to dig through the Telarc label's Jazz section. They (Telarc) are known for their high quality recordings. Perhaps something from here:

http://www.telarc.com/Jazz/midline.asp? ... XDER0V3VK6

julius · #5 Post by **julius** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:38 pm

I would actually use the gold-cover Beethoven symphonies from Deutsche Grammophon by Herbert Von Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic. They are astounding, even though they were recorded in the 70s.

I think a lot of albums recorded by Rudy Van Gelder (legendary jazz sound engineer) would qualify, as would most of the stuff from Concord Records. I'd have to go back and listen on my stereo instead of mp3s in order to definitively answer your question.

Albert System · #6 Post by **Albert System** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:11 pm

Not to toot my own horn (which I do for a living anyhow), but my band's latest CD "Give Me Your Telephone Number" was recorded with all the latest digital stuff, but in an acoustically amazing hall with a minimum of effects added later. The sound man was incredible- he won a Grammy for a CD with the Basie band recorded here in the 90's.

Anyhow, the result is a real room sound without any of the drawbacks of "live" recordings. The idea was to make it sound like the band was playing in your living room, and I think it worked. I will be happy to send you a complimentary copy of it if you like. PM me.

Paul Cosentino
Boilermaker Jazz Band

Mr Awesomer · #7 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:12 pm

Homer: Oh, why wont anyone give me an award?
Lisa: You won a grammy!
Homer: I mean an award that's worth winning.

Sorry... I couldn't resist.

Bob the Builder · #8 Post by **Bob the Builder** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:21 pm

I could recommend anything by Vince Giordano. The sound engineering and mastering is outstanding. The first time I put "Quality Shout" on to my home stereo, I just could not believe it.
I'd buy a stereo system after hearing that. That is when you are selling to the Jazz buffs.

Brian

swing-o-logy · #9 Post by **swing-o-logy** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am

you are completely right! - The 50's recordings are missing the pure soul and spirit of the 30's, what I only meant was the sound quality! - Exelent results too come from german based Bear Family Records. - We are doing some Western Swing Compilations for them (Artwork), the results in Sound quality are very outstanding! - Check it out: www.bear-family.com

PhilShapiro · #10 Post by **PhilShapiro** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:51 pm

The last time I was in a high-end audio shop I heard a recording of Limehouse Blues that had an amazing sound. It was a live recording from a jazz club that, to my ears, sounded like you were right in the room. It's not big band at all, more like Modern Jazz Quartet, but it might work for you.

The album is "Jazz at the Pawnshop" on Prophone records. It's out of print but you should be able to find it on ebay.

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRLP7778

Yakov · #11 Post by **Yakov** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:14 pm

wha...? we've got Bear Family on our Forum!

lipi · #12 Post by **lipi** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:25 pm

does that mean we'll all get the bear friends and bear family discount?

Lawrence · #13 Post by **Lawrence** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:02 am

DMP Big Band, Jerry. It is a Big Band put together purely to promote the DMP record label and the fact that its sound quality rivals and exceeds Telearc.

The musicianship is not innovative or exciting, but it is solid. However, the sound quality of the recordings is the feature. It's in surround sound, and the liner notes even provide a lesson on how to mic a room so as to capture the full, rich sound of a Big Band, noting how many Big Band recordings are treated as small-group jazz recordings or, even worse, as rock recordings.

They have four CDs, three of which are swing-related. In order of preference, they are: the Duke Ellington Project (Tribute album), "Carved In Stone" (Various songs, including "Shiney Stockings," "A Train" and "Volga Boatmen"), and the Glenn Miller Project (tribute album). The fourth is a rare "Sampler" (not even on AllMusic) that frankly is not worth even the sound quality.

Also, Reuben is completely correct (did I just write that?!? ) that most 1950s "Big Band in Hi-Fi" recordings are generally not up to snuff for modern sound quality. However, the remaster of Ellington's "Historically Speaking" is an exception. Obviously not surround sound, but absolutely phenomenal mastering and remastering. I remember the first time I put it on my stereo at home to casually listen to it, and I ended up just sitting down awestruck and listening to the entire album because the sound quality was so captivating.

It also has the only versions of "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" and "Creole Love Call" that I like, both of which have phenomenal low-end sound (baritone sax) to show off a modern sound system. Amazing version of "Stompy Jones," too. My only complaint is that the two songs for which I bought the album--two of my favorite Ellington songs, "Ko-Ko" and "Jack the Bear"--are awful music-wise: sounds like they ran out of time and rushed the recording of both songs just to finish the album. Ironically enough, the musicianship on the entire album is absolutely top-notch except for the two songs for which I bought the damn album!!

julius · #14 Post by **julius** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:59 am

Re: miking a big band

I seem to recall reading that "back in the day" they just hung a really, really good condenser mic in the room and that single mic captured the entire band. I think (but am not sure) that was true even in the 50s. Can anyone confirm or elaborate?

Lawrence · #15 Post by **Lawrence** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:34 am

I seem to recall reading that "back in the day" they just hung a really, really good condenser mic in the room and that single mic captured the entire band. I think (but am not sure) that was true even in the 50s. Can anyone confirm or elaborate?

Yes, well, sort of. "Back in the day" they used a really, really BAD condensor mics that were the best they had available at the time. (Many stories about how an entire band would circle and crowd around a single mic during a recording, contrary to how they would stand while onstage.)

However, even today's condensor mics are not good enough to capture the nuances of each instrument like the human ear is capable of doing when listening the live music. (Thus bootlegs that connect to sound boards are much better than bootlegs from a condensor mic, alone). Thus, while some 1950s recordings stuck with the old school approach of one or two mics (which still sounded better siimply because the mics and hi-fi recording methods were better), other recordings used a combination of both direct mics on instruments (or sections of the band) AND condensor mics to capture how the sound blended in a room, better replicating what we hear when we listen to a live band.

The DMP liner notes explain that many recent Big Band recordings sound "canned" because they are done by sound engineers familiar with small group jazz or rock bands--which only use direct mics and often lack the condensor mics that capture how the sound blends together in space--or by classical music sound engineers--who mostly use condensor mics and do not directly mic individual instruments. The recording studios they use for small group jazz or rock music also tend to absorb the sound too much and lack the space necessary for the sound to fully blend together. Classical music halls, on the other hand, are too big and "swallow" the sound in echoes.

The notes also explain not only how using the combination of both kinds of microphones is necessary to capture "live" sound, but also that the optimum placement of the condensor mics is important, as well, because of the non-uniform way in which sound waves travel and swirl. The balance of direct mics vs. condensor mics is also significant: too much gain on either type will distort the recorded sound so that it does not replicate the live sound.

In addition, there are not just two types of mics: condensor and direct. There are different types of both for different instruments (ideal kick drum mic differs quite a bit from from an ideal trumpet mics, which in turn differ from vocal mics). In short, you need every instrument miked individually plus several condensor mics to capture the sound in the room. Some instruments like piano and drums need two to seven mics per instrument. Thus, you end can end up with 40 to 50 different mics for an ideal recording. But just as more mics create the opportunity to better replicate the sound, they also create more room for error, making it crucial that you have an engineer familiar with Big Band recording, not just rock or jazz or classical recording.

SwingDJs

Swing/Jazz Music for Critical Listening

Swing/Jazz Music for Critical Listening

High Fidelity Swing ... so what??