SwingDJs

I noticed at some of my recent DJ sessions that more and more dancers request Hip Hop. Some DJ’s I’ve listened to are trying to compensate for the lack of swingable Hip Hop with R&B that feels more like very slow Westie than anything else (not that this is bad, it’s just not Lindy). The only Hip Hop I know that’s really worth doing Lindy to is Plenty – Guru feat. Erykah Badu – Street Jazz Vol 1. (or 2). Are there any other similar songs out there you guys play which have a really good Lindy feeling to it?

Send them to the Hip Hop club down the street... or do you even have any in Vermont?

Jebus.

Kalman

GuruReuben wrote:Send them to the Hip Hop club down the street... or do you even have any in Vermont?

Well, actually, Burlington has a surprisingly vibrant music scene for a small town including very good and danceable vocalists and bands like Colin James McCaffrey and Jenni Johnson just name two. Anyway, it sounds like you don’t like the idea of dancing Lindy to Hip Hop. It’s my opinion that Hip Hop is a form of jazz derived from the same line all the jazz we hear today is derived from. Just because 3 and 7 are hit in virtually every phrase and there is a strong emphasis on the rhythm section doesn’t make it inherently bad for dancing Lindy. It’s just like every other jazz, some is danceable, some is not and I’m looking for the danceable ones.

GuruReuben wrote:Send them to the Hip Hop club down the street... or do you even have any in Vermont?

My guess is no: http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/popInfo. ... ndex=25096

This is a cool website. However, like the saying goes “Never trust a statistic you haven’t forged yourself”.

You are somewhat right though. Vermont is much more a modern Jazz and Rock state with only limited Hip Hop places. But I think we are getting somewhat of topic here.

Back on topic then.

Yes, Hip Hop is an evolution of music lines going back to Jazz and beyond.

Lindy Hop is a dance form created by the music along that same musical timeline, but much like the music evolved, so did the dance, and much like musical terms changed along that evolution path, so do the dance terms.

Hence, yes, you can dance the fundamentals of "Lindy" to Hip Hop music, but to truly move and be one with the evolved musical form you'll need to tweak and change (or again, evolve) those fundamentals enough that it becomes something new, different and not the same thing you started with. Slapping the term Lindy Hop on it does a disservice to both the dance in its original form and its new derivative.

If you accept Evolutionist theories that we came from monkeys, you'll note that while monkey's still exist, we don't still call ourselves monkeys. Lindy Hop is now a primative dance form, much like monkeys compared to humans.

Semantics: Yes.
Important: When it comes to recording history, yes, but to most people, no.

Yes, it's been a slow day at work.

I absolutely agree with everything you said.

Nevertheless, wherever you go dancing (lindy) at any given time and at any given place today, the music you hear has variety. At least I hope so. Some songs make me want to do Lindy, some Shag, some Charleston and some Balboa. Some make me want to leave.

Even though these forms of dancing and music are all much closer related to each other than to Hip Hop, I don’t see a reason why one should exclude an emerging dance form like “LindyHipHop” or what ever you want to call it.

I thought especially in your neck of the woods you should be used to people merging modern dance forms and traditional. One example that comes to mind right now is the 2003 ALHC performance of the dance group “Lindy SanDiego”. As far as I recall they were disqualified for doing to much Hip Hop and not enough Lindy. Nevertheless, It shows a trend that I notice at many events as well.

As you said, it’s an evolution. Maybe this is the next step on the ladder or maybe it’s just a mutation without chance of survival. Right now, it’s out there and shouldn’t be ignored.

Slow day at work for me too.

ckn wrote:One example that comes to mind right now is the 2003 ALHC performance of the dance group “Lindy SanDiego”. As far as I recall they were disqualified for doing to much Hip Hop and not enough Lindy. Nevertheless, It shows a trend that I notice at many events as well.

http://www.hiphoplindy.com/hhl/

Not to be an ass or anything, but by this conversation, it seems like Burlington is about, say, 2 years behind the times? Seems like this conversation was bandied around the boards a lot around then ... maybe it's just a generational thing with every new set of dancers ...

In any case, if people want to do a swing dance to a hip hop song, send them to a west coast event. I can't put it any simpler than this: hip hop music lacks swing and takes the soul out of a swingout. What was once lindy becomes, well, something else that I really don't want to put a label on.

I would also add that if you're going to start playing a bunch of hip hop and non-swing music, then I would ask you to consider not advertising your night as a swing night.

You're probably right. Smaller scenes always tend to lag the larger ones. We were still doing Charleston and dancing to Indigo Swing back when Gene Harris et.al. was the popular "Lindy Hop" music in most bigger places.

Well, I guess there is an agreement that Hip Hop and Swing don’t mix.

A few things to defend the swing scene here:

LindyChef wrote:Not to be an ass or anything, but by this conversation, it seems like Burlington is about, say, 2 years behind the times?

Since the Burlington swing scene is not all that big in terms of organized Swing dance events, I travel out of town and state and sometimes country for dancing. The events where Hip Hop was played didn’t happen in Burlington (or in Vermont for that matter).

Toon Town Dave wrote:You're probably right. Smaller scenes always tend to lag the larger ones.

I think you are right. But despite requests, the DJ’s here (including me) don’t play Hip Hop. Since this is a small community, the few good dancers (which happen to be the DJ's as well) travel a lot. Luckily, Montreal and Boston are pretty close and it shows. In fact, I think that the events labeled as Swing dances here are more true to the spirit of Lindy and Blues than in some other places I travel to.

Toon Town Dave wrote:We were still doing Charleston and dancing to Indigo Swing back when Gene Harris et.al. was the popular "Lindy Hop" music in most bigger places.

Whats wrong with doing Charleston? Just look at Montreal

I just thought I noticed something and wanted to get a feel for it. Get an opinion from more experienced DJ’s than I am and learn something. and I think I did.

Thanks for your input

GuruReuben wrote:Back on topic then.

Yes, Hip Hop is an evolution of music lines going back to Jazz and beyond.

Lindy Hop is a dance form created by the music along that same musical timeline, but much like the music evolved, so did the dance, and much like musical terms changed along that evolution path, so do the dance terms.

Hence, yes, you can dance the fundamentals of "Lindy" to Hip Hop music, but to truly move and be one with the evolved musical form you'll need to tweak and change (or again, evolve) those fundamentals enough that it becomes something new, different and not the same thing you started with.

Wow. To even get that you can dance Lindy fundamentals to Hip Hop out of Reuben is shocking. That's great!

Hip Hop and Swing also share Black underground "street" cultural roots: rebeling from the comparatively sterile pop norm of the times in which they evolved.

More relavantly, Hip Hop and Swing also share a similar, pulsing rhythm that allows you to dance the fundamentals to either. The problem is with getting people to recognize it because of the obvious glaring differences.

One less noticeable difference is that the tempos of Hip Hop, although they might have similar energetic "feel," are actually much slower on average than the mid-point of most Swing songs: say 110 to 120 BPMs compared to 150-190 BPMs. Thus, the style of movement (and space between the beats) over 8-counts of dance steps must smooth and spread out the rhythm, which for people accustomed to dancing to up-tempo music (muscle memory) is understandably difficult to adjust to doing.

I personally never liked "Plenty." The rhythm just doesn't do it for me, and the lyrics/meoldies are too annoying.

I lean toward more "thumpy" dance music with more of a Funk origin like Coolio's "Fantastic Voyage," or Tupac's "Holla If You Hear Me." Others: LL. Cool J., "Phenomenon;" Dee-Lite's "Groove Is In The Heart;" and Eminem's "Without Me;" Will Smith actually works, too: Gettin Jiggy With It, Wild Wild West. The "pulsing" rhythm of these songs have much more in common with Swing music/rhythm, making the transition of Lindy dancing moves more palatable... once you get over the tempo thing.

ckn wrote:Well, I guess there is an agreement that Hip Hop and Swing don’t mix.

No, not really, you just got responses from people who prefer to keep it more traditional.

Lawrence wrote: Wow. To even get that you can dance Lindy fundamentals to Hip Hop out of Reuben is shocking.

I've been saying that for years... this is just the first time you've gotten past my "but it's not Lindy Hop" follow up.