SwingDJs

If the Lindy Hop dance was created to certain musical elements in the swing music, mainly the 4/4 swinging rythm The stpes in Lindy Hop are surposed to swing just like the music. But if you change the music to straight 4's or change to 2/4 or 3/4 music. You have a choice. You either dance Lindy Hop but do not dance to the elements in the music in which Lindy Hop was a reflectoin of and hence it could be argued you are no longer dancing to the music, or you dance to the music and take out the swing in your step because the music no longer swings.

Think of it this way. If someone does lindy hop steps to Salsa music are they Lindy Hopping? Well one of 2 things are happening. They are either doing Lindy Hop and ignoring the music or they are dancing to the music and no longer doing Lindy Hop.

Roy wrote:If the Lindy Hop dance was created to certain musical elements in the swing music, mainly the 4/4 swinging rythm The stpes in Lindy Hop are surposed to swing just like the music. But if you change the music to straight 4's or change to 2/4 or 3/4 music. You have a choice. You either dance Lindy Hop but do not dance to the elements in the music in which Lindy Hop was a reflectoin of and hence it could be argued you are no longer dancing to the music, or you dance to the music and take out the swing in your step because the music no longer swings.

Think of it this way. If someone does lindy hop steps to Salsa music are they Lindy Hopping? Well one of 2 things are happening. They are either doing Lindy Hop and ignoring the music or they are dancing to the music and no longer doing Lindy Hop.

Actually it can be argued that lindy hop was created to a distinct two beat downbeated and hybrid beated jazz (listen to early henderson, hopkins, or even some mckinney's) and so it can be argued that none of you guys are really dancing lindy hop unless you are doing it to a specific era of late 20's very early 30's jazz...the dance was dubbed by name in 1927, i don't know about you guys but swinging jazz in 1927 sounds very different to swinging jazz from 1935...the lindy hop you are dancing to roy wouldn't fit really well with late 20's two beat downbeated jazz music...your triples wouldn't feel right and you'd probably never play it at a dance...your dance is a progression that came about roughly ten years later with dean collins and the 1940's...maybe you shouldn't be calling what you dance lindy hop at all but maybe jitterbug or boogie woogie are better terms if you feel triple stepping is so important to you...in any case all I'm saying is you have a set idea on what this dance should be and what music it should be danced to and in general i'm agreeing with you but remember that unlike most things in history nothing has hard and fast rules, dancing is definetly one of them...you have your definition of lindy hop and that's fine, there may be others who say that your definition is way too watered down and distant from the origins, there are others who may say it's too strict, we all have opinions on things...but to bring us back to what I was talking about...all I was talking about was dancing!

Another example...I know charleston aficionados say you can't do charleston to anything but an upbeated 2 beat whereas everyone today does it to an upbeated 4/4 especially in a few performances in dance competitions that have been happening lately...that's it's not really the charleston...anyway back to lindy hop if you accept the progression that was made in the mid to late 30's of the development of the dance and end it's development at a 4/4 downbeat then I still say that there are other types of music that not only have that 4/4 but also have a swinging downbeat...rockabilly can be one of them...
and btw, I know exactly what you mean...if you are used to your triple stepping and your dance..make concessions...change it or don't do your dance how ever you want to think about it to make you comfortable with the new type of music being played...don't do your triples...do something different...do what the music tells you to...if it's not lindy hop so be it...i think dancing to all types of music makes you a better dancer anyway...

To answer the original question, rockability is generally not music i would choose for listening purposes. but i have nothing against it as a genre.

AlekseyKosygin wrote:hahaha...doing the balboa is great to all sorts of music...unfortunately I can only call it the balboa when I'm dancing it to swing music...all the other times I have to think up different names for it...here are a few...

and of course when I dance Balboa with another woman we call it "Boob-boa".

Hell, I love rockabilly, just not for Lindy. BR549 is my fave group, yo.

Kalman

AlekseyKosygin wrote:Wow dude do you really analyze music that much before you dance to it? Are you like "sorry I can't dance to that, cuz I might have to reverse my bounce"...? I hope not because you are going to be sitting alot of songs out...

AlekseyKosygin wrote:Actually it can be argued that lindy hop was created to a distinct two beat downbeated and hybrid beated jazz (listen to early henderson, hopkins, or even some mckinney's) and so it can be argued that none of you guys are really dancing lindy hop unless you are doing it to a specific era of late 20's very early 30's jazz...the dance was dubbed by name in 1927, i don't know about you guys but swinging jazz in 1927 sounds very different to swinging jazz from 1935...the lindy hop you are dancing to roy wouldn't fit really well with late 20's two beat downbeated jazz music...your triples wouldn't feel right and you'd probably never play it at a dance...your dance is a progression that came about roughly ten years later with dean collins and the 1940's...maybe you shouldn't be calling what you dance lindy hop at all but maybe jitterbug or boogie woogie are better terms if you feel triple stepping is so important to you...in any case all I'm saying is you have a set idea on what this dance should be and what music it should be danced to and in general i'm agreeing with you but remember that unlike most things in history nothing has hard and fast rules, dancing is definetly one of them...you have your definition of lindy hop and that's fine, there may be others who say that your definition is way too watered down and distant from the origins, there are others who may say it's too strict, we all have opinions on things...but to bring us back to what I was talking about...all I was talking about was dancing!

Another example...I know charleston aficionados say you can't do charleston to anything but an upbeated 2 beat whereas everyone today does it to an upbeated 4/4 especially in a few performances in dance competitions that have been happening lately...that's it's not really the charleston...anyway back to lindy hop if you accept the progression that was made in the mid to late 30's of the development of the dance and end it's development at a 4/4 downbeat then I still say that there are other types of music that not only have that 4/4 but also have a swinging downbeat...rockabilly can be one of them...
and btw, I know exactly what you mean...if you are used to your triple stepping and your dance..make concessions...change it or don't do your dance how ever you want to think about it to make you comfortable with the new type of music being played...don't do your triples...do something different...do what the music tells you to...if it's not lindy hop so be it...i think dancing to all types of music makes you a better dancer anyway...

For someone who mocked Roy's original (and legitimate) "analysis," you certainly seem to have a lot to say.......

Drew wrote:Lindy Hop was created in response to swing music. If you don't have the music, you don't have the dance. If you have other music, you have another dance.

Your logic is suspicious. To be more specific, you are both and confusing causal connection with logical connection and then denying the antecedent (If A then B; not-A; therefore, Not-B; which is the most elementary fallacy in logic).

My Mom created me. She put me up for adoption and I've never seen her since. Therefore, I don't exist.

I'm going to refer all my music choices to Frankie and let him tell me whether or not they swing. I've got a pretty broad view of what swings, but I draw the line at WCS, Shag, basically a lot of what gets played (out).

Sure, that might swing another way, but it's another way and if I have jackhammer Lindy on top of it or (eep!) actually dance to the music, it ceases to be Lindy Hop.

Kalman

"To be more specific, you are both and confusing causal connection with logical connection and then denying the antecedent (If A then B; not-A; therefore, Not-B; which is the most elementary fallacy in logic). "

That's some funny shit right there...I'll remember to bring my protractor the next time I go to a dance...

In any case I don't remember mocking anyone...I just have some problems when people state the obvious OVER AND OVER AGAIN and refuse to question the definitions that they've concluded to be true, often times these definitions were brought forth by others and not by the people who are touting them so strongly...

AlekseyKosygin wrote:"To be more specific, you are both and confusing causal connection with logical connection and then denying the antecedent (If A then B; not-A; therefore, Not-B; which is the most elementary fallacy in logic). "

That's some funny shit right there...I'll remember to bring my protractor the next time I go to a dance...

In any case I don't remember mocking anyone...I just have some problems when people state the obvious OVER AND OVER AGAIN and refuse to question the definitions that they've concluded to be true, often times these definitions were brought forth by others and not by the people who are touting them so strongly...

The obvious is RAB does not fit well with the dance or anything close to its orignal form.

And for the record I have always said Lindy hop should be danced to songs with a swing rythm. But I don't agree that the swing rythm must be only pre-1945 or or only big band. Swing rythm's are prevelent in many forms of jazz post 1945.

Roy wrote:The RAB I Hear has a back beat too it which gives it a bouncy feeling in a differnt section of the Rythm then swing. Hence in Lindy Hop when you are in the downward bounce of the dance, RAB is in the upward feeling in the music. Hence, you have to reverse your bounce in Lindy Hop if you want to match the music. And personally I don't like to do that.

Also, triple steps in Lindy Hop are there for a purpose. It matches up to the swinging feeling and triplets in Swing music. RAB does not have triplets nor does it have the delayed swing rythm hence once again to dance to RAB it does not make sense to do swing rythm triple steps in your footwork.

Exactly. There's too much good swing out there to have to shoehorn Lindy into something it doesn't fit.

Roy wrote:The RAB I Hear has a back beat too it which gives it a bouncy feeling in a differnt section of the Rythm then swing. Hence in Lindy Hop when you are in the downward bounce of the dance, RAB is in the upward feeling in the music. Hence, you have to reverse your bounce in Lindy Hop if you want to match the music. And personally I don't like to do that.

Also, triple steps in Lindy Hop are there for a purpose. It matches up to the swinging feeling and triplets in Swing music. RAB does not have triplets nor does it have the delayed swing rythm hence once again to dance to RAB it does not make sense to do swing rythm triple steps in your footwork.

Well, what dance are you supposed to do if you're at a show with a really good Rockabilly band? I would think that you could dance like someone in a Bill Haley movie and pull it off pretty good.

yedancer wrote: Well, what dance are you supposed to do if you're at a show with a really good Rockabilly band? I would think that you could dance like someone in a Bill Haley movie and pull it off pretty good.

You could dance like Marcus.

CafeSavoy wrote:

yedancer wrote: Well, what dance are you supposed to do if you're at a show with a really good Rockabilly band? I would think that you could dance like someone in a Bill Haley movie and pull it off pretty good.

You could dance like Marcus.

this debate has transitioned into what i like to think of as the environment versus genetics debate, namely the music environment versus the inherited rhythms and patterns of movements. And resultant question of what mix of them is needed to define the dance. Besides the obvious observation that either alone is not sufficient, since you can do balboa and shag to swing music. which suggests that the music alone is not sufficient to define the dance. And as Yedancer has pointed out, you can use lindy moves to dance rockabilly (although why you'd want to...). so the answer has to involve some mix of the two. beyond that it's personal taste where exactly you draw the line.

and yes roy, you could do lindy to latin music, although some music might fit it more than others. some of it might fit balboa better, or charleston. although i think the earlier mambo music might fit lindy better since the music developed as a result of interaction with the jazz of the time which was mostly swing. You can see echoes of it in the movie "The Buena Vista Social Club", those guys could swing. Check out Alto Sango (145 bpm) _Afro-Cuban All Stars_A Toda Cuba le Gusta. Of course, it's always nice to know the dances that developed with the music, but you can always fit what you know to dance to music that moves you. and that would be street.