Count Basie Auto

[GemZombie]

not a joke. I cannot stand Miles Davis, John Coltrain, Dizzy Gilespie, Slim and Slam, the standard issued stuff from those guys. I have heard one slim gaillard song that i like, and I know that coltrain played in other bands that I like, but i am just talking about what they are known for, what gets played most on the radio.

I'm with you on some of it... but dude... Miles did some cool shit. I'm definitely not a bebop fan, however. I liked Miles later stuff.

[Lawrence]

not a joke. I cannot stand Miles Davis, John Coltrain, Dizzy Gilespie, Slim and Slam, the standard issued stuff from those guys. I have heard one slim gaillard song that i like, and I know that coltrain played in other bands that I like, but i am just talking about what they are known for, what gets played most on the radio.

First, it's "Coltrane."

Second, although I never disliked bop as much as you seem to, my appreciation for it was greatly heightened after listening to Swing Era Jazz almost exclusively for the first two years I was dancing. I then went through a phase of listening to and collecting all the great works by bop jazzmen because I finally understood where they were coming from. I was pretty sick of the repetitive rhythms of Swing, myself, after only a couple of years; these guys took a similar breath of fresh air after playing the same old rhythms and scales for over a DECADE.

Understanding it as a historical progression and going through that historical progression, myself, gave me a finer appreciation for even the edgier, late-60s Coltrane stuff that used to sound like annoying noise to me.

[CafeSavoy]

for even the edgier, late-60s Coltrane stuff that used to sound like annoying noise to me.

some of it is annoying noise .

[CafeSavoy]

not a joke. I cannot stand Miles Davis, John Coltrain, Dizzy Gilespie, Slim and Slam

not even hellzapoppin?

nothing like totally dismissing a couple of the best post-war trumpet players.

[Lawrence]

for even the edgier, late-60s Coltrane stuff that used to sound like annoying noise to me.

some of it is annoying noise .

...and that was the very point: shocking the listener with dissonance....

[Kyle]

1- sorry for the misspelling "Coltrane"

2- hellzapoppin, yeah i like that. i said "for the most part" I do realize that there are going to be a few exceptions, i just didn't have time to point them all out.



I have a friend who loves the shit, and tries to get me to listen to it, and he tries to explain what they are doing, and it makes sense why they did it and how they did it. The problem is that it sounds like crap to me. I don't know how to explain it. It just sounds like a bunch of mixed-up, unintentional notes put together with 4 other guys doing the same thing. I know, I know, its all intentional, i am just saying what it sounds like to me.

[GemZombie]

1- sorry for the misspelling "Coltrane"

2- hellzapoppin, yeah i like that. i said "for the most part" I do realize that there are going to be a few exceptions, i just didn't have time to point them all out.



I have a friend who loves the shit, and tries to get me to listen to it, and he tries to explain what they are doing, and it makes sense why they did it and how they did it. The problem is that it sounds like crap to me. I don't know how to explain it. It just sounds like a bunch of mixed-up, unintentional notes put together with 4 other guys doing the same thing. I know, I know, its all intentional, i am just saying what it sounds like to me.

My problem with a lot of bop is similar. It's pompous trite somtimes. Basically people just showing off, and playing as far out as they can, purposely, just because they can.

Of course, just yesterday I was listening to a Jazz show on the radio, and the host played some "BeBop"... it was definitely swing era, but had that "boppish" feel in the solo sections. The tune itself was pretty much a swing tune. Strange.

[CafeSavoy]

Of course, just yesterday I was listening to a Jazz show on the radio, and the host played some "BeBop"... it was definitely swing era, but had that "boppish" feel in the solo sections. The tune itself was pretty much a swing tune. Strange.

why strange. most of the major players came out of swing. charlie christian would have been a bopper if he hadn't died. i don't think
they drew the kinds of lines in the sand we seem to like.

[Mr Awesomer]

charlie christian would have been a bopper if he hadn't died.

WOULD have been? Dude, he WAS a bopper (when Goody wasn't around.)

[GemZombie]

Of course, just yesterday I was listening to a Jazz show on the radio, and the host played some "BeBop"... it was definitely swing era, but had that "boppish" feel in the solo sections. The tune itself was pretty much a swing tune. Strange.

why strange. most of the major players came out of swing. charlie christian would have been a bopper if he hadn't died. i don't think
they drew the kinds of lines in the sand we seem to like.

I found it odd that the song was considered bebop is all. I agree with the lack of lines thing... to me it was a good song, and that's all.

[Kyle]

for the life of me, i cannot recall the definition that Chuck Niles gave on his "Mostly Bop" show on KJAZZ 88.1, down here in LA. he plays stuff from basie and ellington and the like, and he talked about that. what "identified" something as bop. it wasn't just the lack of a swingin beat, he said something to the effect of the solos, and what the musicians were doing on the solos. it can be bop and still swing. anyone know anything about this? or have more to share about it?

[Mr Awesomer]

it can be bop and still swing. anyone know anything about this? or have more to share about it?

Look into the music of Monk, Christian, Parker, Powell, Jacquet, Byas... I could go on, but that's a good start.

[CafeSavoy]

charlie christian would have been a bopper if he hadn't died.

WOULD have been? Dude, he WAS a bopper (when Goody wasn't around.)

john szwed in jazz101 lists him as one of five who helped make a
revolution: roy eldridge, charlie christian, art tatum, jimmy blanton,
and lester young. imagine how sweet it would have been to be at
those sessions at minton.

[CafeSavoy]

so, when i'm done I am looking for another book to read, any ideas?

here are book recommendations from http://www.dacapopress.com/jazz/books.html

Contents
In Their Own Words
Classic Lives
For All Jazz Lovers


Satchmo, My Life in New Orleans, by Louis Armstrong
"By far the most revealing document yet on Louis Armstrong's early life and his view of music in the world, Satchmo: My Life in New Orleans is also a pleasure to read."
- Martin Williams

Music is My Mistress, by Duke Ellington
"One of the most colorful 'inside' stories of jazz in its heyday yet published."
- John Barkham Reviews

Lady Sings the Blues, by Billie Holiday
(Penguin USA)

Miles: The Autobiography, by Miles Davis
(Touchstone Books)

Beneath the Underdog, by Charles Mingus
(Vintage Books)

Straight Life, by Art Pepper and Laurie Pepper
"A tough, dizzying, hard, and honest book that will haunt anybody who opens it."
- Down Beat

Good Morning Blues, by Count Basie and Albert Murray
". . . one of the most finished and evocative life histories of an American musician ever written." - Times Literary Supplement

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Satchmo
The Genius of Louis Armstrong, by Gary Giddins
" A treasury worthy of both the genius and the gentle spirit of Armstrong."
- People

Louis Armstrong:
An Extravagant Life
by Laurence Bergreen
(Broadway Books)

Bird Lives!
The High Life and Hard Times of Charlie Parker, by Ross Russell
"The best biography of any jazz musician that we have . . .."
- Ralph Gleason

Lady Day
The Many Faces of Billie Holiday
by Robert O' Meally
"Billie Holiday deserves a biography in which her musicianship isn't overshadowed by the tragic events of her life. O'Meally has written that book."
- Entertainment Weekly

Space is the Place
The Lives and Times of Sun Ra, by John F. Szwed
"Essential reading for the millennium."
- Village Voice

Remembering Bix
A Memoir of the Jazz Age, by Ralph Berton
New foreword by Nat Hentoff

Chasin' the Trane
The Music and Mystique of John Coltrane, by J.C. Thomas
>"The life of John Coltrane . . . read of him here, and break your recordings of the Golden Oldies and the Top Ten Bullets."
- Stephen Longstreet, Readers Syndicate

Myself When I Am Real:
The Life of Charles Mingus
by Gene Santoro
(Oxford university Press)

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The History of Jazz, by Ted Gioia
(Oxford University Press)

Reading Jazz, by Robert Gottlieb
(Vintage Books)

Kind of Blue:
The Making of the Miles Davis Masterpiece, by Ashley Kahn
"This book is an amazing account of one of the greatest events and recordings of our time. . . This is a must-have."
- Herbie Hancock

A Century of Jazz
From Blues to Bop, Swing to Hip-Hop
by Roy Carr
The first-ever chronicle of the major influence in western music this century.

Collected Works: A Journal of Jazz
by Whitney Balliett
(St. Martin's Press)

The Biographical Encyclopedia of Jazz, by Ira Gitler and Leonard Feather
(Oxford University Press)

Jazz: A History of America's Music
by Geoffrey Ward and Ken Burns
(Knopf)

Black Beauty, White Heat
A Pictorial History of Classic Jazz 1920-1950
by Frank Driggs and Harris Lewine
"This is a photographic survey of jazz to end all such surveys. It is the biggest and the best."
- Stanley Dance, JazzTimes

Stomping the Blues
by Albert Murray
"The most eloquent book ever written about African-American music."
- Stanley Crouch, Village Voice

[Soupbone]

This is a late reply on an otherwise dead topic, but I've been reading Duke's "Music is My Mistress," and it's kinda weird.

It's mostly memories and stories and so forth straight from Duke. But, it's got a very haphazard organization and he seems to jump around a bit with few transitions or connections. He has some interesting insights into other musicians, although he's invariably complimentary of those he chose to include (understandably). He spend a lot of time talking about his travels and so forth.

It's not nearly as interesting for me as the Basie biography was, but they're written very differently with somewhat different intentions.