The stuff you don't like

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Soma-Guy · #76 Post by **Soma-Guy** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:40 pm

Same thing up here in Vancouver. Me and my partner Louise have been holding special event dances every so often. Our scene really gets barely any exposure to the old vintage stuff. I think it's kind of hard to expect venues and D.J's to change how they play immediately. Rather we've been doing occasional big events that focus on a bit of everything. We have a different D.J that spins every hour. This way we're able to have a few D.J's from around the Pacific North West that never get asked to play much around here that like have a special like for the old vintage stuff. Then we ask a few of the regualar D.J's in town that play all the exchanges, many of the regular venues and have them play as well. That way, we hope, the audience will be begin to get exposure to this music in a non-threatening and fun way. And you know what? It seems to work! Everyone comes out, has a good time and there's still tons of people on the floor when we shut it down and 5am.

CafeSavoy · #77 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:04 pm

Soma-Guy wrote:Me and my partner Louise have been holding special event dances every so often. Our scene really gets barely any exposure to the old vintage stuff. I think it's kind of hard to expect venues and D.J's to change how they play immediately. Rather we've been doing occasional big events that focus on a bit of everything. ....That way, we hope, the audience will be begin to get exposure to this music in a non-threatening and fun way. And you know what? It seems to work! Everyone comes out, has a good time and there's still tons of people on the floor when we shut it down and 5am.

Sounds like a great idea. I think people are more willing to dance to a variety of stuff when it includes what they like.

Jake · #78 Post by **Jake** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:50 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:Sounds like a great idea. I think people are more willing to dance to a variety of stuff when it includes what they like.

I agree; I tend to think that if you're one among many DJs on a given night, you have the choice to DJ mostly tunes that you like. But if you're the only DJ, you have to throw in some percentage of crowd-pleasers, even if they're not to your taste.

julius · #79 Post by **julius** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:36 pm

Lawrence wrote:
However, when I hear talk of "potentially invisibly unhappy people," it actually sounds like someone is just projecting what they want people to think onto people no matter what the visible signs (smiles, hugs, laughs, cheers) might indicate. To be blunt, I doubt that you know what they are thinking better than they do, especially when the "visible" signs indicate the opposite....

Speaking of projecting...

Lawrence, want to know something? These people COME UP TO ME and TELL me that they don't like the music, but they are dancing anyway. Am I projecting people TALKING INTO MY EAR?

Dude. You seriously need a wake-up call. I rarely get angry, but your fantasy world annoys me greatly.

yedancer · #80 Post by **yedancer** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:24 pm

julius wrote: Lawrence, want to know something? These people COME UP TO ME and TELL me that they don't like the music, but they are dancing anyway. Am I projecting people TALKING INTO MY EAR?

Dude. You seriously need a wake-up call. I rarely get angry, but your fantasy world annoys me greatly.

It has been a very long time since I literally laughed out loud because of a post on an internet forum. However, I am laughing now because this is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time.

Nate Dogg · #81 Post by **Nate Dogg** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:09 pm

julius wrote:
Lawrence wrote:
However, when I hear talk of "potentially invisibly unhappy people," it actually sounds like someone is just projecting what they want people to think onto people no matter what the visible signs (smiles, hugs, laughs, cheers) might indicate. To be blunt, I doubt that you know what they are thinking better than they do, especially when the "visible" signs indicate the opposite....
Speaking of projecting...

Lawrence, want to know something? These people COME UP TO ME and TELL me that they don't like the music, but they are dancing anyway. Am I projecting people TALKING INTO MY EAR?

Dude. You seriously need a wake-up call. I rarely get angry, but your fantasy world annoys me greatly.

Sometimes the room is full of dancers who are dancing, yet a majority are unhappy with the DJ.

Sometimes the room is full of dancers who are dancing, yet a minority of them project their own viewpoint on the entire crowd, assuming that nobody really likes the music. When in fact, they are incorrect.

Some dancers who like to dance to faster music will dance to slow songs, even if they would rather the music be faster.

Some dancers who like to dance to faster music also like to dance to slower music.

Lost in the cloud of all the negative personal statements directed at DJs on this thread. A good portion of the statements are accurate. They are just not rules that are 100% accurate for every situation/group of people, etc...

shortyjul · #82 Post by **shortyjul** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:23 pm

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

yedancer · #83 Post by **yedancer** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:38 pm

You sound like The Sphinx from Mystery Men.

Nate Dogg · #84 Post by **Nate Dogg** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:57 pm

yedancer wrote:You sound like The Sphinx from Mystery Men.

We are number one! All others are number two, or lower.

Lawrence · #85 Post by **Lawrence** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:13 pm

julius wrote:
Lawrence wrote:However, when I hear talk of "potentially invisibly unhappy people," it actually sounds like someone is just projecting what they want people to think onto people no matter what the visible signs (smiles, hugs, laughs, cheers) might indicate. To be blunt, I doubt that you know what they are thinking better than they do, especially when the "visible" signs indicate the opposite....
Speaking of projecting...

Lawrence, want to know something? These people COME UP TO ME and TELL me that they don't like the music, but they are dancing anyway. Am I projecting people TALKING INTO MY EAR?

Dude. You seriously need a wake-up call. I rarely get angry, but your fantasy world annoys me greatly.

Dude. You just changed your argument from "[a dance floor] potentially full of invisibly unhappy people" to "a few visibly unhappy people who talk to me and tell me what they think." (And that came after you misread my original example noting some of the risks of playing *vintage* music as a universal condemnation of all *fast* music.)

Instead of baiting another flame war, perhaps what happened is that I simply did not read your mind and instead responded to what you wrote.

But your intimidation and personal attack has effectively convinced me I'm wrong about everything: at least about as effectively as my calling Reuben names convinced him that he has no sense of humor.

yedancer · #86 Post by **yedancer** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:57 pm

To learn my teachings, I must first teach you how to learn.

BryanC · #87 Post by **BryanC** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:33 am

If you do not master your rage, your rage will become your master.

I actually agree with Nate Dog though--as obvious as he is.

Wasn't this thread originally about how various DJ's handle requests of songs they don't want to play (in particular, "standards")?

"Why am I doing this again?"
"When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you will head off your foes with a balanced attack."
"And why am I wearing the watermelon on my feet?"
"I don't remember telling you to do that."

Lawrence · #88 Post by **Lawrence** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:27 am

BryanC wrote:I actually agree with Nate Dog though--as obvious as he is.
Wasn't this thread originally about how various DJ's handle requests of songs they don't want to play (in particular, "standards")?

Yes, Nathan's final point was the most salient, which unfortunately was probably overlooked because of all the dali-lama-speak.

The thread started as a query about whether you carry the stuff you don't like, with some indicating that they don't carry anything but what they really, really like. I commented that I carry stuff beyond what I find perfect, ideal, and fabulous, and then stupidly opened myself up to the usual flame wars from the usual suspects with an example about how I carry vintage music even though I might not find it ideal, perfect, and fabulous for an entire night: the point being that by casting the net a bit beyond "what I find perfect, fabulous, and ideal" but instead to "what I can envision working into a good, diverse set of music," not only do my own tastes broaden, but I play a more diverse, less-redundant set of music.

To say it another way, the entire set can be more perfect, fabulous, and ideal if not every song is the example of what you find perfect, fabulous, and ideal at any given moment in your development as a DJ. The whole can become greater than the sum of its parts if the parts are diverse beyond your sense of perfect, fabulous, and ideal at any given moment.

Despite the distraction caused by the attacks on the example I chose, or the confusion between fast and vintage music (as if my saying that "I carry vintage music even though I appreciate some risks in playing it" constituted a universal damnation of all *fast* music), it still began on-point.

julius · #89 Post by **julius** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:57 am

One good way to kill an interesting argument is to start commenting on the argument itself instead of actually debating about it.

The crux of our difference lies in the fact that you cannot believe that people would dance to music they don't like, whereas I have solid evidence that many, many people dance to music they don't like. Whether you think they are a "few" or "nonexistent" really doesn't matter, because you have mentioned indirectly time and again that what you believe is surely an absolute.

In the end, I choose to believe that you are talking about the situation in Austin, and that I am talking about the situation in Los Angeles.

Let me make a poll.

#90 Post by **JesseMiner** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:27 pm

To answer the original question:

It is extremely important to empathize with the dancers, understanding what inspires them to dance. Sometimes it just so happens that your tastes (music you like to dance to) perfectly coincide with theirs, but often you have to work at it. I think too many DJs are constrained by their definitions of what they would like to dance to, not opening up to what others in their crowd might enjoy. I don't advocate flat out buying music you hate, but I do strongly encourage all DJs to expand their appreciation for different types of swinging music and learning to enjoy a wider variety of it. There is plenty of music that I know my crowds love even though I have no interest in dancing to it myself. That's fine because I know it's quality music. There is a difference between refusing to play a song because you think it's an inherently bad song and because it's something that you, the DJ, wouldn't want to dance to yourself.

Matthew wrote:What have you done about "standards" that you dislike?

Simply put, if they'll make your dancers happy, learn to like some, if not all, of them!

Jesse

PS. I guess I'm just agreeing with many of the points that Lawrence has already made in this thread.