Songs for teaching / beginners classes

[Eyeball]

And fwiw - you might consider not using recordings with vocals on them. It can be distracting when things take a back seat to the vocalist. Let the instruments be heard.

[Toon Town Dave]

mr. e, I believe the discussion of music selection criteria is relevant, perhaps more valuable than specific recordings. When I'm teaching, I have a particular goal for the class or topic. I choose music that is appropriate.

Haydn, excellent recommendations for various reasons.

Eyeball, great point on the vocals. Seems a bit counter-intuitive on the surface based on experience with newbie dancers on the social floor but I agree with the idea for class.

For a beginner class, I believe the emphasis should be the core rhythms, and core movement, the music is critical to this. This is the reason I agree with not choosing music that is too "musical", it adds extra stuff that's not "basic". This is also why I believe in sticking with real swing music rather than "neo-swing or not-quite-swing".

I like to set a solid foundation and give my students a good understanding of the fundamentals of the dance as a foundation. This is the figurative home base. From there, they can explore other ideas as they gain more experience.

Teaching with "not-quite-swing" music means I'm either teaching "not-quite-swing" dancing or I'm teaching how to swing dance while ignoring the music which is as silly as it sounds. It's fine if that's the purpose of the class, not fine if the purpose is swing dancing basics.

Playing and adapting to different music comes later with mastery of the basics, particularly clear movement and good lead/follow connection. That's when students are ready to put more of their personality into their dancing.

That's all on a macro level. On a micro level, if for example I'm trying to get students to hang back on the beat, I'll choose music that's a little more laid back like Slim and Slam's Jump Session. If I'm trying to push tempos and get students dancing to faster music, I'll choose music that doesn't feel as fast as it is like Earl Hines' Easy Rhythm. If I want to emphasize basic 32 bar phrasing I'll choose something like Erskine Hawkins Tuxedo Junction. If I want to emphasize bounce, I'll choose something a little more punchy like Lunceford's Tain't What You Do or Solid as a Rock by the Count Basie Octet. If I'm tying to emphasize triple steps in some way, I'll often choose a boogie rather than swing such as Sammy Price's West End Boogie or a rhythm and blues tune like Sixty Minute Man. If I want to emphasize making movement flow with a stretchy melody and swinging rhythm, Little Jazz is a great tune.

To me the music is more than just a beat to keep time. Dancing expresses what is in the music, the music inspires the dancing. Those are the values I try to pass on to my students.

[Mr Awesomer]

Thanks to those who followed the actual topic, which was posting song recommendations you consider good for a beginners class.

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime."
Chinese Proverb

[fredo]

Dave, I couldn't agree more.

Mr e, I guess I just fundamentally disagree with your ideas about cons of playing so called "real" swing music, and the pros of playing "not-swing" or "neo-swing" in a beginning swing class.

If this is a truly beginner class, they may not even know what swing music and swing dancing is. It would be a crime to demonstrate swing dancing to beginners using "not swing" music. So what if the neo-swing has higher fidelity if it doesn't represent what they will be dancing to on the dance floor. If a clear beat is your argument for it, then put on a metronome and call it good. Why have them wait a few years to get into swing music on their own -- why not start them on solid footing?

now i know no one has said anything about not using swing music for teaching, so I dont mean to beat a straw man, but I strongly disagree that you should ALSO use neo-swing or not-quite-swing in a beginning class -- to me that's just irresponsible. Save it for a specialty class, or call it a not-quite-swing dancing class.

so call me a swing nazi if you want, but instead of listing more beginner swing friendly songs (which others have done, and are bountiful), I just want to point out my opinion that I think using neo-not-swing songs in a beginner class is missing the point. The dancing was born from the music -- sure it grew out of its mold over time -- but for a beginner, starting them with swing music deviations isn't going to help them understand the dance any better.

[Eyeball]

Dave, I couldn't agree more.

Mr e, I guess I just fundamentally disagree with your ideas about cons of playing so called "real" swing music, and the pros of playing "not-swing" or "neo-swing" in a beginning swing class.

If this is a truly beginner class, they may not even know what swing music and swing dancing is. It would be a crime to demonstrate swing dancing to beginners using "not swing" music. So what if the neo-swing has higher fidelity if it doesn't represent what they will be dancing to on the dance floor. If a clear beat is your argument for it, then put on a metronome and call it good. Why have them wait a few years to get into swing music on their own -- why not start them on solid footing?

now i know no one has said anything about not using swing music for teaching, so I dont mean to beat a straw man, but I strongly disagree that you should ALSO use neo-swing or not-quite-swing in a beginning class -- to me that's just irresponsible. Save it for a specialty class, or call it a not-quite-swing dancing class.

so call me a swing nazi if you want, but instead of listing more beginner swing friendly songs (which others have done, and are bountiful), I just want to point out my opinion that I think using neo-not-swing songs in a beginner class is missing the point. The dancing was born from the music -- sure it grew out of its mold over time -- but for a beginner, starting them with swing music deviations isn't going to help them understand the dance any better.

Shoutin' in that "Amen!" corner here, Fredo!

[Eyeball]

This was what I didnt want to get into too deeply any more - the 'two swing dance scenes'.

Scene #1 - This scene is a scene with genuine Swing music for people who care enough to want the very best and to play the very best.

Scene #2 - This scene is a more casual scene where near any music will do and no one cares all that much on any level. They have 'swing djs', 'swing bands' and 'swing dancers'......but it isn't the same as Scene #1.

[LindyMom]

Dave, I couldn't agree more.

Mr e, I guess I just fundamentally disagree with your ideas about cons of playing so called "real" swing music, and the pros of playing "not-swing" or "neo-swing" in a beginning swing class.

If this is a truly beginner class, they may not even know what swing music and swing dancing is. It would be a crime to demonstrate swing dancing to beginners using "not swing" music. So what if the neo-swing has higher fidelity if it doesn't represent what they will be dancing to on the dance floor. If a clear beat is your argument for it, then put on a metronome and call it good. Why have them wait a few years to get into swing music on their own -- why not start them on solid footing?

now i know no one has said anything about not using swing music for teaching, so I dont mean to beat a straw man, but I strongly disagree that you should ALSO use neo-swing or not-quite-swing in a beginning class -- to me that's just irresponsible. Save it for a specialty class, or call it a not-quite-swing dancing class.

so call me a swing nazi if you want, but instead of listing more beginner swing friendly songs (which others have done, and are bountiful), I just want to point out my opinion that I think using neo-not-swing songs in a beginner class is missing the point. The dancing was born from the music -- sure it grew out of its mold over time -- but for a beginner, starting them with swing music deviations isn't going to help them understand the dance any better.

Shoutin' in that "Amen!" corner here, Fredo!

Adding my "Amen" to this as well. As both an instructor and DJ, connecting the dance with the music is essential. I often give my students a list of swing music and musicians so that they can go and explore the music on their own as well as finding something to practice their dancing to. I've had nothing but "wow thanks" and "this is awesome information". Additionally, as a DJ, I make sure to play music that is beginner friendly from time to time throughout the night but particularly at the start of the dance post-beginner lesson. There is SO MUCH wonderful swing music out there - I just can't justify playing non-swing songs. I never use non-swing in a lesson. At a dance, I have done so given enough pressure, but I don't have to like it.

Believe it or not, when I explain my position on music to non-dancers who watch programs like Dancing with the Stars, they suddenly realize what I am talking about. Because it really doesn't make sense - even to them - to dance something like the paso doble to pop music. Argentine tango should be danced to tango. Salsa should be dance to latin Salsa music. Etcetera etcetera. And frankly, I have taken many a Salsa lesson and NEVER heard anything but Salsa played.

Given the chance, people will learn to love to dance swing to swing music. Yeah, sure you can dance to anything if you really want to. But IMHO, something is missing when you do.

[Eyeball]

Adding my "Amen" to this as well. As both an instructor and DJ, connecting the dance with the music is essential. I often give my students a list of swing music and musicians so that they can go and explore the music on their own as well as finding something to practice their dancing to. I've had nothing but "wow thanks" and "this is awesome information". Additionally, as a DJ, I make sure to play music that is beginner friendly from time to time throughout the night but particularly at the start of the dance post-beginner lesson. There is SO MUCH wonderful swing music out there - I just can't justify playing non-swing songs. I never use non-swing in a lesson. At a dance, I have done so given enough pressure, but I don't have to like it.

Believe it or not, when I explain my position on music to non-dancers who watch programs like Dancing with the Stars, they suddenly realize what I am talking about. Because it really doesn't make sense - even to them - to dance something like the paso doble to pop music. Argentine tango should be danced to tango. Salsa should be dance to latin Salsa music. Etcetera etcetera. And frankly, I have taken many a Salsa lesson and NEVER heard anything but Salsa played.

Given the chance, people will learn to love to dance swing to swing music. Yeah, sure you can dance to anything if you really want to. But IMHO, something is missing when you do.

[sonofvu]

so call me a swing nazi if you want...

You mean nobody is going to take this free shot? OK, I will. Swing Nazi.

By the way, I'm teaching a Partnered Charleston class and I only use music from the 20's. Everything else is anachronistic.

-George "The Charleston Nazi" White

[fredo]

Swing Heil, Whitey, Swing Heil!

[Surreal]

Oh man, as much as I want to sling around accusations of music and dance snobbery...

Swing Heil, Whitey, Swing Heil!

...this is the best quote ever.

[Haydn]

When I'm teaching, I have a particular goal for the class or topic. I choose music that is appropriate ...

... For a beginner class, I believe the emphasis should be the core rhythms, and core movement, the music is critical to this. This is the reason I agree with not choosing music that is too "musical", it adds extra stuff that's not "basic". This is also why I believe in sticking with real swing music rather than "neo-swing or not-quite-swing".

I like to set a solid foundation and give my students a good understanding of the fundamentals of the dance as a foundation. This is the figurative home base. From there, they can explore other ideas as they gain more experience.

Teaching with "not-quite-swing" music means I'm either teaching "not-quite-swing" dancing or I'm teaching how to swing dance while ignoring the music which is as silly as it sounds. It's fine if that's the purpose of the class, not fine if the purpose is swing dancing basics.

Playing and adapting to different music comes later with mastery of the basics, particularly clear movement and good lead/follow connection. That's when students are ready to put more of their personality into their dancing.

That's all on a macro level. On a micro level, if for example I'm trying to get students to hang back on the beat, I'll choose music that's a little more laid back like Slim and Slam's Jump Session. If I'm trying to push tempos and get students dancing to faster music, I'll choose music that doesn't feel as fast as it is like Earl Hines' Easy Rhythm. If I want to emphasize basic 32 bar phrasing I'll choose something like Erskine Hawkins Tuxedo Junction. If I want to emphasize bounce, I'll choose something a little more punchy like Lunceford's Tain't What You Do or Solid as a Rock by the Count Basie Octet. If I'm tying to emphasize triple steps in some way, I'll often choose a boogie rather than swing such as Sammy Price's West End Boogie or a rhythm and blues tune like Sixty Minute Man. If I want to emphasize making movement flow with a stretchy melody and swinging rhythm, Little Jazz is a great tune.

To me the music is more than just a beat to keep time. Dancing expresses what is in the music, the music inspires the dancing. Those are the values I try to pass on to my students.

Dave,

It's good to hear from a teacher. Your classes sound great . I like the music you've mentioned, and particularly the way you match the music to what you are teaching. I haven't noticed many teachers doing this. Do you use any modern (say post-1960) music when you teach or DJ for beginners?

[Toon Town Dave]

When teaching Lindy Hop (or Charleston), generally I use pre-WWII stuff although I don't really think about that specifically. I will use other music, including modern recordings for other classes like West Coast Swing.

When I DJ, I play what I think the crowd will enjoy dancing to and that often includes modern stuff.

[straycat]

I'm very much torn on this one. I agree with just about everything that's been said about using swing for teaching swing....

but

For us, Lindy lessons aren't just to teach people Lindy, bizarre as that may sound. I'd better put this in context.

We're a very new scene. We've been going for less than two years, and currently have two venues, one of which we've been in for three months, and one which we started three weeks ago. We are, I like to think, passable teachers, but will never come close to touching Lindy godhood. There are very few swing dancers in the area - there's a couple of university clubs, but there's no other real social / teaching venues, very few people have heard the term 'Lindy Hop', and of those, only a very small proportion have the slightest clue what it is. And very few people have the slightest idea about swing music.

What we're trying to do is establish a local scene, since no-one's been kind enough to come and do it for us . To do this, the lessons need to do two things: 1) entertain, and 2) teach. In that order. The key thing is that we need to hang on to as many newcomers as we can. If they enjoy it, they'll come back.... but in the early stages, it's incredibly easy for someone to be put off.

For example: back when I was being encouraged to start Lindy, I was put off two local classes, chiefly by the music, which I disliked. I can't remember what they played - and I couldn't tell you for sure whether it was simply bad music, or that I hadn't yet acquired a taste for good swing. I suspect it was a bit of both. I didn't really start to appreciate swing until I was dragged out to Herrang one year.

So ... right or wrong, I will play some neo in the lessons, in addition to the easy swing. I'm trying to 'stealth' the more sophisticated tracks in by going for the neo / easy / slower tracks during classes and for the first part of the evening, and as the night goes on, slowly raising the tempo peaks, and phasing into some more serious swing. On the atmosphere side it seems to be working, and (touch wood), likewise on the retention side.

Maybe that makes us bad people But at least as long as we need to build numbers, I think it's what we need to keep doing here.

Apologies for adding to the off-topic discussion.

[Surreal]

After our dance class last night, we got a ton of the new kids to go out to the casino where there was a live band playing (sort of a smoother neo swingy style). The music was good, and a lot of the more experienced dancers had heard them before. But the song that garnered the most excitement and got the most people on the floor (experienced and newcomers alike) was when the dj put on Candyman between sets.