We've been listening a lot of live "Dixieland" (used on the broad sense of the work). Travis has read that Eddie Condon was offended when folks called his style of music "Dixieland", he referred to his music as "Chicago jazz".
I asked Ham Carson about this (our favorite new group that plays at the New Orleands cafe), and he thought maybe Dixieland was used as a race term.
I just bought several Chicago CDs - "Chicago White Small Bands", "Chicago Black Small Bands", and "Big Band Chicago". The small bands are from the '20's and '30's - good starter sets for hot jazz collections.
Reading through the Cotton Club thread made me think about this --- do you think Chicago was more divided racially as far as jazz? Anybody want to talk about the term Dixieland? I know Roy has been doing a lot of research into Chicago-based music.
Chicago jazz vs. Dixieland
Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy
I can actually explain Chicago vs Dixie Land thing, but it would take too long to do so here (Read I really don't want to type statement) ask me next time.
I would be interested to know when Condon said he was "offended" when people refered to him playing Dixieland, sinc in the 50's he called waht he played "Modern Dixieland". Might be something to have Greg ask his dad. George Avakian was the producer of much, if not all, on Condon's Columbia records.
-Kevin
I would be interested to know when Condon said he was "offended" when people refered to him playing Dixieland, sinc in the 50's he called waht he played "Modern Dixieland". Might be something to have Greg ask his dad. George Avakian was the producer of much, if not all, on Condon's Columbia records.
-Kevin
"We called it music."
— Eddie Condon
— Eddie Condon
I have been trying to find where I read that about Condon and haven't found it yet. I don't remember reading that he was offended - just that he didn't like his music being referred to as Dixieland. I'll keep looking but it seems that was a pretty common attitude among the original New Orleans and Chicago musicians.
I think that was why he had a song called "We Call It Music."Travis wrote:I have been trying to find where I read that about Condon and haven't found it yet. I don't remember reading that he was offended - just that he didn't like his music being referred to as Dixieland. I'll keep looking but it seems that was a pretty common attitude among the original New Orleans and Chicago musicians.
http://www.atlantajazzparty.com/ajp4.html
Written by Phil Carroll:
“So what do I call "my kind of jazz?" Some folks label it "Dixieland" but like Eddie Condon, I dislike the term because it conjures up images of straw hat and striped vest-clad musicians playing loud and fast to stir a crowd who may have never heard good jazz. To help answer the question, Condon made a record and wrote a book, both with the title "We Called it Music." And as Jelly Roll said, "There are only two kinds of music...good and bad." But, it would not explain much if I call my kind of jazz just music. So, how about a term such as "classic jazz" which hopefully implies roots in the masters such as Oliver, Morton, Armstrong, Bechet, Teagarden, Goodman, Muggsy and all the Condon Gang. Listen to our great players of today and you will hear them honor the masters by playing in the same tradition, but with no imitation.”
In researching this I also came across a couple of websites saying that Pee Wee Russell (who played with Condon throughout most of his career) hated Dixieland and that he claimed to not even know how to play Dixieland music very well. Here's one:
http://users.bestweb.net/~msnyder/clarinet/russell.htm
Written by Phil Carroll:
“So what do I call "my kind of jazz?" Some folks label it "Dixieland" but like Eddie Condon, I dislike the term because it conjures up images of straw hat and striped vest-clad musicians playing loud and fast to stir a crowd who may have never heard good jazz. To help answer the question, Condon made a record and wrote a book, both with the title "We Called it Music." And as Jelly Roll said, "There are only two kinds of music...good and bad." But, it would not explain much if I call my kind of jazz just music. So, how about a term such as "classic jazz" which hopefully implies roots in the masters such as Oliver, Morton, Armstrong, Bechet, Teagarden, Goodman, Muggsy and all the Condon Gang. Listen to our great players of today and you will hear them honor the masters by playing in the same tradition, but with no imitation.”
In researching this I also came across a couple of websites saying that Pee Wee Russell (who played with Condon throughout most of his career) hated Dixieland and that he claimed to not even know how to play Dixieland music very well. Here's one:
http://users.bestweb.net/~msnyder/clarinet/russell.htm