Hiss on old records

[Haydn]

I was thinking about hiss on old records and how to get rid of it.

I have quite a lot of 1930s songs on CD. Some CDs have great music spoiled by poor sound. I often compare the sound quality of CDs, and sometimes notice that the same recording will have a lot more 'hiss' on some CDs than others.

So I was thinking about how the hiss gets there. Was the hiss there on the original vinyl, or was it somehow added by the time it gets to some CDs? If it was there on the original vinyl, that means that the better-sounding CDs have had the hiss removed. And if it was removed when transferring the song from vinyl to CD, can it also be removed AFTER having been copied to CD. In other words, can someone like me effectively remove hiss from old songs? (The only way I know of reducing hiss is to reduce the treble frequencies, but this spoils the sound).

[SoundInMotionDJ]

The hiss was in the original recording. When old(er) recordings are put onto a CD, there is a tendency to increase the volume...following the "louder is better" mentality. If someone does not take the time to minimize the hiss during that process, it will get louder along with the music.

There are several software packages that include "automatic" (or more accurately, pre-set) hiss reducers. Some are good, some are not. Those software tools are always a good place to start.

If you are not satisfied at that point, get a good EQ (31 band minimum), and experiment until you find the one (or few) frequencies that contain most of the hiss, and try reducing them, while boosting the surrounding frequencies to compensate for the loss of volume. The goal is to keep the total volume the same, while cutting the majority of the hiss out of the recording.

--Stan Graves

[trev]

The hiss is usually noise across all of the frequencies, but we tend to notice it more in the upper range, so that's where I'd start.

A word of caution though - it's tempting to think that a recording is automatically better the less 'hiss' there is, but many budget CDs have used excessive digital noise reduction which whilst eliminating the hiss, also removes a lot of the original instrumentation. It's easy to lose the hi-hats for example, or to make the recording seem as if it was recorded through a wall.

The trick is to buy the best recordings available that have been issued by companies with sound engineers that know what they are doing. They'll start by seeking out the most original or pristine original sources. They then restore that source (removing dust and surface imperfections etc which other companies will ignore) and then balance out everything the find the optimum sound; They want the least amount of noise with the most amount of music. Often if the original source is poor, they choose to leave the hiss in to keep the instruments clear.

I've often heard and I tend to agree that the human brain is the best noise filter. It doesn't take long before you don't even notice it. Although in saying that, I think the needs of DJing a dance are slightly different to listening at home: I'm more likely to put up with some noise at home than when i'm dancing in a noisy venue where I can't hear all the instruments anyway.

[Eyeball]

Vas is das "hiss"?

Electronic 'hiss' or surface noise from another recording?

Define, please.

[Lawrence]

I think the needs of DJing a dance are slightly different to listening at home: I'm more likely to put up with some noise at home than when i'm dancing in a noisy venue where I can't hear all the instruments anyway.

I wish others would make that same realization that I made ten years ago.


As for the original question, Stan is correct that there are software products that will cut out the hiss, but the problem is that they often compromise other aspects within that same frequency. Especially for vintage recordings that are already quite limited in what they capture, I generally would prefer to have the hiss than eliminate even more of the musical subtleties.

It is the same as with any audio issue: the best place to resolve an audio issue is at the source, not with refinements or tweaks to a poor quality source. I was always counseled to build a sound system from the source out (buy a great turntable or CD player, first, then buy a great amp, then buy great speakers last), which is the opposite of what many goofs do (they buy speakers first, and then are shocked when they don't sound the same as in the store when they were hooked up to $10,000 source components).

Once you have an issue with the source material, it is really difficult to fix it without compromising something else. It depends on how badly corrupted the source is, but I would default to finding a better source in lieu of fixing a poor quality source.

[Matthew]

Add a whole bunch of hiss at the start of the track, then fade it out to make the dancers think you fixed it and they're getting the best possible sound.

[trev]

Vas is das "hiss"?

Electronic 'hiss' or surface noise from another recording?

Define, please.

I took it to mean surface noise rather than playback interference.

[Eyeball]

Vas is das "hiss"?

Electronic 'hiss' or surface noise from another recording?

Define, please.

I took it to mean surface noise rather than playback interference.

Hmmmm........I am not sure.

A pristine LP should have no surface noise. A pristine 78 will have next to none, but pristine 78s are in short supply.

Then there is the real devil - tape hiss - as real as any evil.

All these steps between source material from 1930s and 40s thru LPs and tapes in the 50s and 60s, to digital transfers of recent eras.

Anyway - folks here may be talking about different things.

[Haydn]

The hiss was in the original recording ... There are several software packages that include "automatic" (or more accurately, pre-set) hiss reducers. Some are good, some are not. Those software tools are always a good place to start.

--Stan Graves

Can you name any of the 'good' software tools Stan?

[Haydn]

many budget CDs have used excessive digital noise reduction which whilst eliminating the hiss, also removes a lot of the original instrumentation. It's easy to lose the hi-hats for example, or to make the recording seem as if it was recorded through a wall.

The trick is to buy the best recordings available that have been issued by companies with sound engineers that know what they are doing. They'll start by seeking out the most original or pristine original sources.

Thanks Trev. Yes, I've learned to hunt down the best CD releases. I don't bother with cheap box sets any more. When comparing sound quality of a song across different CDs, I try to listen to the snare-drum or high-hat and the bass. But the problem I have is when even the best sounding CD copy has a lot of 'hiss'. I'd like to somehow get the track without the excessive hiss. Perhaps I can actually clean it up myself given the right tools, but can anyone tell me how?

[Haydn]

I would default to finding a better source in lieu of fixing a poor quality source.

But if every available CD release of a track has too much background noise, where do you find a better source?

[SoundInMotionDJ]

The hiss was in the original recording ... There are several software packages that include "automatic" (or more accurately, pre-set) hiss reducers. Some are good, some are not. Those software tools are always a good place to start.

--Stan Graves

Can you name any of the 'good' software tools Stan?

Not really. "Best" is defined in terms of the listener. I use Sound Forge. Overall, I am very happy with the results that I can achieve with that software. But I use it more for editing than for noise reduction.

At times when I was recording from tape to the computer, I was generally happy with the hiss reduction I could get. But, there were certain songs that lost too much of their sound. As Trev and Hayden pointed out, it is important to listen for specific instruments during any "noise reduction" process to understand what the overall effect will be. I tend to focus on horns.

Every music editor includes some kind of tool for reducing hiss. Some will sample the "silence" at the beginning of the track and then attempt to remove that noise from the rest of the recording. That approach works the best of any of the "pre-set" options that I have tried.

Most software editors include a parametric EQ, so you might be able to experiment with that and get some reduction of noise. Understanding what an EQ is help tremendously.

At this point, I generally prefer to record through my 31 band EQ. That has produced the best results of any method I've tried. The frequencies that need to be cut vary with each new recording.

Unfortunately, there is no "set it and forget it" option that I have ever seen. You need to treat each song separately, and there are no short cuts. Fortunately, once you get a song "done" it stays that way.

--Stan Graves

[Eyeball]

The hiss was in the original recording.

There is no hiss in the original recording. What people may be hearing is playback engendered noise, not an inherent hiss in a recording of the era.

[Eyeball]

What frequency range does hiss occupy?

[Cyrano de Maniac]

What frequency range does hiss occupy?

Generally around 8 kHz, give or take 2 kHz, though there certainly are exceptions. It's right in the same neighborhood as the sibilance of "S" sounds.

Brent