Previewing. How do you DJ without it.

Tips and techniques of the trade

Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy

Message
Author
Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

#31 Post by Haydn » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:47 am

JesseMiner wrote:I believe that the ability to preview music is an essential DJ tool. I always tell newer DJs that headphones are a required piece of equipment just for that reason.
Last night was the first time I've properly used 'previewing' in my set, and it definitely helped. Another DJ helped me with this (thank you :wink: ). We also had a monitor speaker next to the DJ table, which I've never had before. So I could hear the track being played on the monitor speaker, while listening to others on the headphones that I was auditioning for the next song. I'm also keen to get a laptop (I use CDs), but now I know to preview using CDs, I might be more choosy about the computer because I don't want to lose the ability to preview.

User avatar
dogpossum
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

#32 Post by dogpossum » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:40 pm

I've picked up DJ1800 since I last posted in this thread, and on the weekend I did a few sets at (the very excellently excellent fun) Hullabaloo in Perth using headphones to preview! I didn't intend to at first, but decided (mid-way through a disastrous blues set on the Friday) that I might try some previewing to help myself. It didn't help the set any, but I noticed a few things...

But first, the equipment I used:
- itunes as my library, and as the program talking to the mixing desk on an ibook G4. I turn off all the other programs but DJ1800 to save battery and efficiency
- DJ1800 as my 'previewing' program, running through my headphones. I didn't want to jump right in with DJ1800 as my main DJing tool at a big exchange, and I was wary of the technical issues you guys've mentioned here
- I plugged into the power. I don't usually need to plug in when I do 1.5 hour sets, but DJ1800 + itunes = bigger power drain. This sucks a bit as I often play at venues with difficult power point issues.
- my lovely Sennheiser headphones for previewing
- my new sennheiser adapter thingy (which you can just see in this picture), which lets me plug a mike and headphones into one adapter which then plugs into the usb


It was great to be able to preview, and I found my method got smoother and smoother as the weekend went on. By my final set on Sunday night I was feeling pretty shmicko. I'm not sure the dancers would have noticed or cared.

Advantages to previewing:
- I can 'sound test' songs to see if they'll suit the vibe you have going. This is great when you're not quite sure of a song.
- Good headphones mean that I can block out the ambient noise to better hear the song I'm previewing. Little ipod ear buds are less useful.
- I look really cool-DJ with the headphones around my neck.

Disadvantages:
- I noticed that I was increasingly depending on previewing songs before adding them to my set list. Which meant that I'd physically flick through and listen to about 5 songs before adding one to a playlist. Usually I'll be looking through my music (by artist or bpm or 'style') for something to catch my eye, adding a few maybes to the playlist, or I'll have a clear idea of which song would really work next, and add that to the list. This means I end up with a fair few songs at the end of the list which I might play in that set, but which are really just 'maybes' I've thought of during the set and don't want to 'lose' when I shift my attention.

Overall, using the headphones meant that I was actually slower in making my decisions about which song to play next, and that I was working with a shorter 'shortlist' - about 5 songs as opposed to the zillions I'd scan as I scrolled through my collection. This could just be a noober thing, and I guess I'll start using a combination of approaches and get a bit better at this.


Ideally, I'd like to keep working on knowing my collection really really well, and use previewing as a backup or 'verification' if I'm not sure of a particular song. I've noticed that there's nothing more useful than knowing artists/bands well, and knowing what sort of music they played in which periods - so dates are extra important.



Thanks for all your advice though, everyone.

User avatar
Lawrence
Posts: 1213
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:08 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

#33 Post by Lawrence » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:14 pm

JesseMiner wrote:I believe that the ability to preview music is an essential DJ tool. I always tell newer DJs that headphones are a required piece of equipment just for that reason.

One of the major downsides that has come with the increase in popularity of laptop DJing has been losing the ability to preview. With CD mixers, cueing was almost always available, but laptops usually only come with a single audio output. Too many DJs don't take the time to get the proper set-up with an external sound card, and they give up a valuable DJ skill. I find it hard to believe that many (any?) DJs out there are not only 100% familiar with each and every song (starting, middle and ending) in their collection but also how each song sounds before or after every other song in their collection. Relying on your memory will lead you towards playing it safe and not push yourself to greater heights musically.

Also there is a big difference between not previewing because you are confident with your next song selection and not previewing because you are technically unable to do so.

You might find it overwhelming now to be playing a song, watching the crowd AND thinking about what is going to come next, but that will become much easier as you grow as a DJ. It is a worthwhile investment to get a good sound card and a software solution that easily allows you to route one audio source out to the audience while another goes to your headphones.
I agree completely. Anyone who claims he knows his entire collection well enough to not preview either has an incredibly small collection or is just plain exaggerating (*cough* Loggins *cough*). Those who don't claim they know their entire collection but still don't preview either have not tried previewing to see just how invalueable it is or unwisely pre-program their sets such that they have limited ability to improvise and adapt to the room. Adjusting to the room is part of the fun/art of DJing!

Setting up an external sound card (so I could preview on the internal card) was one of my absolute requirements before I started using a laptop.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

User avatar
remysun
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:39 pm
Location: Motown

#34 Post by remysun » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:06 am

dogpossum wrote:I turn off all the other programs but DJ1800 to save battery and efficiency
I understand efficiency, but battery, meaning running without a power supply? Isn't that just asking for trouble from the memory charge fairy?

"Remember Cinderella, be home before twelve. At the magic stroke of midnight, your laptop shall be transformed back into a pumpkin."

User avatar
dogpossum
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

#35 Post by dogpossum » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:52 pm

remysun wrote:
dogpossum wrote:I turn off all the other programs but DJ1800 to save battery and efficiency
I understand efficiency, but battery, meaning running without a power supply? Isn't that just asking for trouble from the memory charge fairy?

"Remember Cinderella, be home before twelve. At the magic stroke of midnight, your laptop shall be transformed back into a pumpkin."

I could do it on my old laptop - 1.5 hours was fine without a powerbrick. And it was important to shed that extra weight when riding my bike in to dance and DJ!
But with my new laptop I have to cart that extra cordage around with me.

jflanger
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:28 am

#36 Post by jflanger » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:48 pm

dogpossum wrote:I wish I could just use a little, basic media player just for previewing while I continue with itunes until I become uberDJ. Don't need a library, I just want a click and drag option.

What do other mac laptop DJs use?
DJay.
http://www.algoriddim.net/download/index.html

Hands down awesome.

Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

#37 Post by Haydn » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:34 am

jflanger wrote:
dogpossum wrote:I wish I could just use a little, basic media player just for previewing while I continue with itunes until I become uberDJ. Don't need a library, I just want a click and drag option.

What do other mac laptop DJs use?
DJay.
http://www.algoriddim.net/download/index.html

Hands down awesome.
Looks good 8)

Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

#38 Post by Haydn » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:42 am

I DJ'd from a computer for the first time last night (I've always used CDs before). It felt liberating - it was much easier and less stressful than working from CDs, and allowed me to find things quickly by BPM, artist or song title and line up lots of different good stuff to play. I used iTunes on my Mac, using the 'Party Shuffle' feature as my playlist and dragging and dropping from other playlists onto this ...

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articl ... in-itunes/

The only thing I couldn't do was preview. Meanwhile, the other DJ for the night was using iTunes and Windows Media Player, previewing in iTunes using headphones, and outputting from Media Player with a USB sound card. It seemed to work pretty well.

So I think I'm coming round to the idea of sticking with iTunes, and combining it with another player, just previewing from one, and playing from another, rather than using a 'do-it-all' DJ program like Traktor. I'm going to explore different combinations of iTunes and players. Djing from a computer means my available list of songs will be much bigger, so it probably makes previewing more important than when using a limited number of CDs.

Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

#39 Post by Haydn » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:08 pm

So, I am trying to set up my Mac for use with two media players - iTunes for previewing and another for playing. My setup is:

iMac G5
OS X 10.4.6
iTunes 7
Turtle Beach USB card

I would like to use iTunes for previewing using the built-in sound, and another player for playing via the Turtle Beach USB card.

I can't find a way of directing the sound output from an individual application. I have to choose the sound output in the 'Sound' System Preference, and this is constant for all applications - so it's either always built-in sound, or always USB card, I want to set iTunes to use the built-in sound and the other application (such as Real Player) to use the USB card.

I also can't find a way of dragging a song from iTunes to Media Player or Real Player to play. I'd also be interested in using two iTunes applications if that was possible.

Any help would be appreciated :)

User avatar
Lawrence
Posts: 1213
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:08 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

#40 Post by Lawrence » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:31 pm

Haydn wrote:So, I am trying to set up my Mac for use with two media players - iTunes for previewing and another for playing. My setup is:

iMac G5
OS X 10.4.6
iTunes 7
Turtle Beach USB card

I would like to use iTunes for previewing using the built-in sound, and another player for playing via the Turtle Beach USB card.

I can't find a way of directing the sound output from an individual application. I have to choose the sound output in the 'Sound' System Preference, and this is constant for all applications - so it's either always built-in sound, or always USB card, I want to set iTunes to use the built-in sound and the other application (such as Real Player) to use the USB card.

I also can't find a way of dragging a song from iTunes to Media Player or Real Player to play. I'd also be interested in using two iTunes applications if that was possible.

Any help would be appreciated :)
I am not a Mac guy, but I suspect your software is what needs to have the capability of using two different sound cards, not your OS or your particular brand of external sound card. Many have said that ITunes does not have the capability to use multiple sound cards, which is why people only use ITunes either as the main output program or the previewing program in which they search for songs while a DIFFERENT program plays to the dancers.

Some people who use WinAmp indicated that WinAmp is similarly limited, but they can install a second installation of WinAmp under a different name, and run the two installations concurrently on different sound cards. However, I don't think you can do so with ITunes either because ITunes does not allow multiple installations on the same computer or because ITunes does not allow you to run two installations at the same time.

These answers and more can be found in the software and laptop DJing threads, not the previewing thread.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

#41 Post by Haydn » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:48 am

Lawrence wrote:These answers and more can be found in the software and laptop DJing threads, not the previewing thread.
Yes, well spotted Lawrence :wink:
Lawrence wrote:Many have said that ITunes does not have the capability to use multiple sound cards, which is why people only use ITunes either as the main output program or the previewing program in which they search for songs while a DIFFERENT program plays to the dancers.
That's what I am trying to do on my Mac :wink:. I've now managed to do it with 'DJay' software -

http://www.algoriddim.net/index.html

- which allows me to send the output to the USB sound card, while iTunes uses the built-in sound. But I'd like to be able to similarly configure other media players like Real Player or Windows Media Player to do this, as DJay is not ideal for use as a player only. Oh well, off to search through the other two threads ...

zzzzoom
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

#42 Post by zzzzoom » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:55 am

On my mac, I am now using iTunes and the system audio out to send to the speakers and Cog (with a USB soundcard) if the need arises to preview . . . http://cogx.org/

After using DJ1800 for a couple of years, I was getting more and more audio drops.

Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

#43 Post by Haydn » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:17 am

zzzzoom wrote:On my mac, I am now using iTunes and the system audio out to send to the speakers and Cog (with a USB soundcard) if the need arises to preview . . . http://cogx.org/
Thanks :)

User avatar
dogpossum
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

#44 Post by dogpossum » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:40 pm

zzzzoom wrote:On my mac, I am now using iTunes and the system audio out to send to the speakers and Cog (with a USB soundcard) if the need arises to preview . . . http://cogx.org/

After using DJ1800 for a couple of years, I was getting more and more audio drops.

This is exactly the combination I'm experimenting with now, for the same reasons. I found that DJ1800 didn't recognise my usb soundcard sometimes... I don't know what the problem was, but it made a difference if the usb was plugged in when I turned on DJ1800.

Are you finding cog useful for previewing?

zzzzoom
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

#45 Post by zzzzoom » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:54 am

With DJ1800, the sound card has to be in before you launch it. The problem I found is that when your hard drive begins to get full, it will drop the audio for 1 second or 2. Not all the time. But maybe once every couple weeks.

Cog seems to work okay. It's pretty utilitarian. I just drag a track from iTunes. It seems a little quirky but it does the job and I don't preview a lot so it works for me. It does not display the iTunes library but I just use it to drag one song at a time but I haven't used it extensively. I'd be interested in hearing how this set up works for you.

Locked