SwingDJs

with our lindy blues exchange coming up soon, i have been thinking about the feedback and suggestions we have gotten about what to play. these suggestions come from out of towner dj's (on this board and otherwise)...and i am trying to assimilate all of it and make sense of the knowledge, wisdom, signal, and noise, and thought i would throw it out for your input.

some wished we played more blues last year and listed off 15 styles of blues that they did not hear (including many genres from which i have never heard a danceable song). some thought there was too much of certain styles of blues. some forgot that the "b" in "r and b" stood for blues. most thought the mix was perfect (it being and lindy and blues exchange as the name denotes). at least one person suggested a specific blend of music to be played this year and failed to mention "blues" specifically, preferring jazz and wing in a slower tempo range (i don't have the exact info, so i apologize if i am a bit off on this last one).

i know you can't make everyone happy, (esp dj's), but wanted some feedback on what guidelines specific to blues dj'ing might help our dj's.

then again - since dj's were the only source of negative feedback, maybe it's not worth even thinking about?

My sugestion would be to add some Delta blues (some of it is dancable, big bill Broozny has many dancable tunes), stay away from modern guitar blues, reduce the funk blues, add St. louis blues artists from yesterday and today. Play some T-bone Walker and Bessie Smith no matter what.

But like you said most people liked the music mix last year. The people who did not like the music mix came from dance scenes which has allot of blues music in the mix. Specificly I heard complaints from people from these cities Chciago, Kansas City, Champaign, Cleveland, and San Diego. My theory is that you played less of a range then these people normally hear. In most aread of the country you played more then they normally hear and hence were happy.

Well, I think I'm still supposed to be one of the DJs there this year again, although I haven't heard anything recently from Heide.

I think there was a lot of great music played last year by both the bands and the DJs, and most people said they had a lot of fun. I think my only criticism would be to avoid playing so much funk-rhythm songs. I've received a lot of compliments ever since for my sets at STBLX last year, and I played few if any funk-rhythm songs.

I was thinking of starting a thread about basically the same topic, but calling it "Blues Dancing music". I'm interested in what others think are the types of songs to be played for blues dancing.

I think the best tunes for blues dancing are slow swinging blues and jazz songs that have a sexy or bluesy "feel", with tempos ranging from about 70 BPM to 130 BPM. Songs with breaks or interesting patterns are best, as are songs with lots of expression or passion. Since blues dancing is mostly about getting close and improvising from closed position, songs that inspire that are obviously preferred. But its not just about grinding, though, its about dancing, so its about picking songs that can inspire both.

I like the slow swinging blues and jazz songs best. Slow swinging tunes are better, in my opinion, being that most of us are coming from a Lindyhop-danced-to-swinging-music background. And I think slow swinging songs are easier to dance to. A few funk-rhythm or shuffle rhythms, or whatever rhythm songs are nice to break it up. In terms of labels, it looks like most of the artists I like are mostly labeled as jazz-blues, West-Coast blues, jump blues, or whatever in AMG. I don't like heavy guitar blues a lot, I prefer pianos and horns. In general, just because a song is a classic blues song doesn't mean its going to be a great blues-dancing song. For example, I don't play a single B.B. King or Buddy Guy song when I DJ blues dancing.

I think the tempos from 70 BPM to 130 BPM work pretty well. The slow songs are best for mostly closed position dancing. The middle and upper tempo songs are where you can throw in some swingouts if you want to give the follow some space. The upper tempo songs also provide a nice contrast with the lower tempo ones.

One of the best (but overplayed) blues dancing song I've heard is "When the Lights Go Out" (105 BPM or so) by Jimmy Witherspoon. Lots of fun breaks, and totally appropriate lyrics. Nina Simone has some killer songs, oozing with passion, about 80 BPM like "Blues for Mama" and "Do I Move You". I like "That Night" (130 BPM) by Swing Session. Slow sweet jazz songs like Ella's "Let's Fall In Love" ("Bees Do It",etc.) can work, partly because its such a damn good song. Instrumentals songs like "Pink Panther" or Oscar Peterson's "Happy Go Lucky Local" (110 BPM) are good choices, too, in my opinion, because there's so much to play with. There's some great blues dancing songs by Jimmy & Jeannie Cheatham, Gene Harris, Joe Williams, Ray Brown, Ray Charles, Johnny Hodges, and some great older stuff by T-Bone Walker or Amos Milburn.

Roy, good post (we said a lot of the same things). But just a correction, San Diego is not really a blues-dancing city. Here in San Diego I can't play hardly anything below 115 BPM or the floor clears. People don't get blues dancing. Its quite sad...

Ron wrote:Roy, good post (we said a lot of the same things). But just a correction, San Diego is not really a blues-dancing city. Here in San Diego I can't play hardly anything below 115 BPM or the floor clears. People don't get blues dancing. Its quite sad...

Well that blasts my theory, could be the individuals hear it allot but not the entire scene.

Playing allot of R&B is dangerous. early R&B is fine 1946-1955. but modern R&B is assocaited with Westies. and hence playing allot of it will upset your more experienced Lindy Hoppers. I have noticed many of the newer generation of Lindy Hoppers seem to like it and allot of it, but many of the more experienced Lindy Hoppers loate it.

great feedback, but i would disagree with the assertion that KC and cleveland already have a lot of blues in their scene...both cities tend to be very uptempo hollywood/bal influenced. this doesn't help me decipher their alleged opinions, though.

chicago, though, i understand, and i appreciate the feedback and suggestions. i also plan on forwarding this thread to our other dj's in case they care.

p.s. ron, you are most definitely dj'ing...heidi put the schedule together last night, gave you some prominent spots, and should be in touch shortly.

Roy wrote:Playing allot of R&B is dangerous. early R&B is fine 1946-1955. but modern R&B is assocaited with Westies. and hence playing allot of it will upset your more experienced Lindy Hoppers. I have noticed many of the newer generation of Lindy Hoppers seem to like it and allot of it, but many of the more experienced Lindy Hoppers loate it.

i mostly agree with you, in that if you go beyond 1960 or so, it is much harder to find r&b of the quality i want to play, but it does exist.

our scene tends to be a little more flexible (or wierd?) than some in terms of enjoying r&b, funk, etc. but i try to temper that when playing to an out of town crowd. part of the idea of an exchange is to show the flavor of your town, and that philosophy does affect my set (hopefully within reasonable limits).

smunky wrote:great feedback, but i would disagree with the assertion that KC and cleveland already have a lot of blues in their scene...both cities tend to be very uptempo hollywood/bal influenced. this doesn't help me decipher their alleged opinions, though.

chicago, though, i understand, and i appreciate the feedback and suggestions. i also plan on forwarding this thread to our other dj's in case they care.

p.s. ron, you are most definitely dj'ing...heidi put the schedule together last night, gave you some prominent spots, and should be in touch shortly.

These would be individuals in those cities not the entire dance scene in that city just to be clear. But my theory is shot anyway, oh well. But it does explain it from the positive point of view, for example in DC where there is practicly no blues, your exchange would provide allot more then they are used too.

I'm approaching this with my perspective on blues dancing, not necessarily based on any definition from the blues music thread.

From my experience, when I hear blues being discussed as far as dancing, I think of slow (below 100 bpm) blues that invoke intense closed-position dances. I think of artists like Joe Williams, Jimmy Witherspoon, Lavay Smith, Joe Turner, and Jimmy & Jeannie Cheatham. In the Lindy scene I grew up in, the national "Savoy" scene 5+ years ago, either the music was swinging suitable for Lindy Hop or slow blues suitable for blues dancing (the latter was definitely a minority of the music played, but it was quite a treat, especially late at night).

This was as technical a distinction as was made most of the time. Just because something is technically blues doesn't mean that it is what comes to mind when you mention the blues in a dancing context. "T-Bone's Blues" by T-Bone Walker would inspire me to swing, not blues dance. Same goes with most of Basie's blues numbers (except the really slow ones).

Here are a few examples of great slow blues songs:

Gee Baby, Ain't I Good To You - Lavay Smith (Everybody's Talkin' 'Bout Miss Thing!) (60 bpm)
No Rollin' Blues - Jimmy Witherspoon (Rockin' With Spoon) (58 bpm)
In The Dark - Carrie Smith (Confessin' The Blues) (61 bpm)
Night Time Is The Right Time - Joe Turner (The Bosses) (69 bpm)
Night Train - Al Greg (Night Train Revisited) (67 bpm)
Please Mr. Johnson - Etta Jones (Sings The Songs Of Buddy Johnson) (59 bpm)
Sweet Baby Blues - Jeannie & Jimmy Cheatham (Sweet Baby Blues) (46 bpm)

I know some of the people who had criticisms of your event come from a similar dance history, so maybe they weren't hearing enough of this stuff? Just a thought. I wasn't there, so I of course can't comment personally on what was played. I do know that Ron has a great sense of music for blues dancing (from hearing him spin, knowing his dance background and reading his post above), so I'm sure his stuff went over really well.

I guess the term "lindy blues" that you seem to use in advertising your event is confusing (it is "lindy blues" not "lindy & blues" correct?). To me I would be torn between interpreting that as swinging blues like Count Basie's material or slow blues that Lindy Hoppers like to dance to like I've mentioned above. I would be musically disappointed going to an event billed as such if those two types of music weren't the majority of what was played. Yes, I do see that you have an extensive history lesson on your site (Blues Music and Blues Dance), but really, people's first impressions and prior connotations rule their expectations.

But once again, that's just my perception. Maybe newer dancers have a different perspective and expectations that are being met by your event.

Best of luck with it either way!

Jesse

Roy wrote:But it does explain it from the positive point of view, for example in DC where there is practicly no blues, your exchange would provide allot more then they are used too.

WTF? We're thinking about having our own blues exchange... Where'd this craziness come from? I always throw some blues in, especially when the crowd will dance to it -- and the floor generally fills up when a Blues number is played. I teach Blues Dancing here too, and it tends to be a very popular class... Stop spreading such harrible rumours. Just because we have a lot of fast dancing, or popular fast dancers, doesn't mean we don't have any or a lot of blues dancing either. D.C.'s a big city with a strong scene that can support multiple venues in one night as well as a wide tempo tempo range and multiple styles.

Ron wrote: I think the best tunes for blues dancing are slow swinging blues and jazz songs that have a sexy or bluesy "feel", with tempos ranging from about 70 BPM to 130 BPM. Songs with breaks or interesting patterns are best, as are songs with lots of expression or passion. Since blues dancing is mostly about getting close and improvising from closed position, songs that inspire that are obviously preferred. But its not just about grinding, though, its about dancing, so its about picking songs that can inspire both.

I agree. Moreover I think a good blues dancing song is fluid, not staccato and shuffling. The latter kind of blues (generally raucous guitar blues) makes me want to West Coast instead. The former kind is found much more often as jazzy blues.

Ron wrote: Here in San Diego I can't play hardly anything below 115 BPM or the floor clears. People don't get blues dancing. Its quite sad...

That's because the men are all creepy and the follows are all underage.

heheheheh.

mark0tz wrote:

Roy wrote:But it does explain it from the positive point of view, for example in DC where there is practicly no blues, your exchange would provide allot more then they are used too.

WTF? We're thinking about having our own blues exchange... Where'd this craziness come from? I always throw some blues in, especially when the crowd will dance to it -- and the floor generally fills up when a Blues number is played. I teach Blues Dancing here too, and it tends to be a very popular class... Stop spreading such harrible rumours. Just because we have a lot of fast dancing, or popular fast dancers, doesn't mean we don't have any or a lot of blues dancing either. D.C.'s a big city with a strong scene that can support multiple venues in one night as well as a wide tempo tempo range and multiple styles.

This came from you. you are the one who told me there was more blues music at STLBX then you hear in your own city. I think I still have the PM in our discusion in my PMs.


Another quote from a DC DJ I heard a few months ago, where he said when he played a real blues song in DC, people look up at him like he grew a second head. I thought the quote was funny that's why I remeber it. I think it was Matt Smiley, but I could be wrong.

But since I am apparently wrong, I am glad you set the record straight.

Compared to Chicago we have very little Blues. However, it's expanding, and there certainly is a presence. People have talked to me asking me to start a blues-only venue. While there is no blues-only night, there are several DJ's who integrate blues numbers into their sets... if I said practically no blues, I apologize for my mistake and for the weed I must have been smoking... (although I don't smoke).