When a DJ kills the scene

[Mr Awesomer]

Not to mention that in San Diego, the opinions of the people doing the most bitching and moaning weren't shared by the majority.

James 2:17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. KJV

[Roy]

I think a DJ who is out of touch with the dancers can ruin a scene. Also, it depends on how many options there are within a scene. Some cities dancers can just go elsewhere. Others there are no other options and the scene dwindles.

[CafeSavoy]

When a DJ kills the scene

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:57 pm Post subject: DCLX DJ Challenges dancers

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I am going to kill all of you with my music.

Bring it!
_________________
-mike faltesek

you mean like that?

[lindyholic]

For instance, the most popular weekly Austin event has the worst DJs out of all the Lindy-oriented events in Austin. Matt Jones (who DJs nationally) DJs in the exact same venue on a different night every week, and they don't ever get half the crowd. Chicago's most popular venue "back in the day" (Liquid in 1997-98 ) had the absolutely WORST post-rockabilly, Neo-crap DJ who played the same thing every week. But it was the place to be.

How true. The worst DJ in Seattle gets a better turnout than most other DJs. Which I find particularly funny since he is also the DJ that most people who have been dancing for longer than a year avoid like the plague.

That's cuz the newbies don't know better, those poor, lost souls!

Harrison

[Drew]

I once thought a DJ (or two) could make or break a scene. But there are too many other contributing factors. And, when it comes down to it, there are only a handful of people in each scene who truly appreciates the quality of music. Nobody pays attention to the music as much as we do when we are out.

For instance, the most popular weekly Austin event has the worst DJs out of all the Lindy-oriented events in Austin. Matt Jones (who DJs nationally) DJs in the exact same venue on a different night every week, and they don't ever get half the crowd. Chicago's most popular venue "back in the day" (Liquid in 1997-98 ) had the absolutely WORST post-rockabilly, Neo-crap DJ who played the same thing every week. But it was the place to be.

The most significant factor in determining the success of a "scene" (and also an event) is the people in it and how they interact: how welcomming and friendly they are to each other. Speaking from experience, keep in mind that you are one of those people, and how you respond to this allegedly bad DJ will affect the fate of "the scene" just as much as, if not more than, his bad DJing.

I understand the points, but I do think that in the case of Liquid there is something to be said for the taste and experience level scene-wide at that time was not near as developed. Sure, there were outstanding DJs around the city, and Riley ended up holding court at Liquid for a time, but those were the exception and not the rule.

In Minneapolis, the only regular DJ is Terry Gardener (a few others, self included, drop in on occasion), and one of the only ones who can keep the floor consistently full. But he spins at Tapestry and occasionally Swing Junction for mainly newbies who don't care what they dance to. Terry's got good music, I've taken some recording selections from him, but it's too often scattered between neo, Chicago blues, rockabilly, and 40's pop.

What drives me nuts is when DJs spin neo, etc. because of the perception that it is what the newbies want, as if it is the only thing newbies will dance to, when really as long as they can hear the rhythm will probably dance to pretty much anything. From my experience, for every request for "Zoot Suit Riot" there will be at least 20 newbies who don't care.

I'm not suggesting impassivity, but rather stuff that doesn't piss the rest of the room off.

[yedancer]

What drives me nuts is when DJs spin neo, etc. because of the perception that it is what the newbies want, as if it is the only thing newbies will dance to, when really as long as they can hear the rhythm will probably dance to pretty much anything. From my experience, for every request for "Zoot Suit Riot" there will be at least 20 newbies who don't care.

I'm not suggesting impassivity, but rather stuff that doesn't piss the rest of the room off.

I have to agree and disagree with you here. At our venues in San Diego, we've been having an unusally large newbie turnout, and I've noticed that while they will dance to pretty much anything, the stuff associated with the 90's swing revival drives them wild. The other night I played Louis Prima's "Jump, Jive, and Wail" and you should have heard the cheer that went throught the room. It was crazy.

Now it would definitely drive me nuts if a DJ ONLY played that stuff. But seasoning your set with it is fine by me if the crowd is predominantly newbie. When they think "swing music" and "swing dancing," they don't think "Chick Webb" and "Count Basie." They think about stuff from the movies "Swingers" and "Swing Kids." I'm not saying appeal to the lowest common denominator, I'm just saying I think it's good to give them a little of what they want. Help them develop a taste for real music, but don't beat them over the head with it. Cuz they'll just leave if they don't hear the stuff they like. I've seen it happen.

I have some more thoughts on this subject, but I have to leave for work now, so I'll post them later.

[Drew]

What drives me nuts is when DJs spin neo, etc. because of the perception that it is what the newbies want, as if it is the only thing newbies will dance to, when really as long as they can hear the rhythm will probably dance to pretty much anything. From my experience, for every request for "Zoot Suit Riot" there will be at least 20 newbies who don't care.

I'm not suggesting impassivity, but rather stuff that doesn't piss the rest of the room off.

I have to agree and disagree with you here. At our venues in San Diego, we've been having an unusally large newbie turnout, and I've noticed that while they will dance to pretty much anything, the stuff associated with the 90's swing revival drives them wild. The other night I played Louis Prima's "Jump, Jive, and Wail" and you should have heard the cheer that went throught the room. It was crazy.

Now it would definitely drive me nuts if a DJ ONLY played that stuff. But seasoning your set with it is fine by me if the crowd is predominantly newbie. When they think "swing music" and "swing dancing," they don't think "Chick Webb" and "Count Basie." They think about stuff from the movies "Swingers" and "Swing Kids." I'm not saying appeal to the lowest common denominator, I'm just saying I think it's good to give them a little of what they want. Help them develop a taste for real music, but don't beat them over the head with it. Cuz they'll just leave if they don't hear the stuff they like. I've seen it happen.

I have some more thoughts on this subject, but I have to leave for work now, so I'll post them later.

I don't think you're wrong, but the other side is that if the mid-level dancers and above--ostensibly, those who do care about the music they dance to--get annoyed with the neo stuff that newbies usually like, they quit coming out, leave early, or show up late. The advanced dancers are a smaller, more vocal group but important to have to inspire the new dancers.

There is a definite balance. When I've spun Tapestry, towards the beginning of the night I will go for more hi-fi stuff that is easier and a little more simplistic and shift gears into Buddy Johnson, Hampton Orch., and the like, and then into what I really like to spin, for when my friends show up.

[yedancer]

I don't think you're wrong, but the other side is that if the mid-level dancers and above--ostensibly, those who do care about the music they dance to--get annoyed with the neo stuff that newbies usually like, they quit coming out, leave early, or show up late. The advanced dancers are a smaller, more vocal group but important to have to inspire the new dancers.

There is a definite balance. When I've spun Tapestry, towards the beginning of the night I will go for more hi-fi stuff that is easier and a little more simplistic and shift gears into Buddy Johnson, Hampton Orch., and the like, and then into what I really like to spin, for when my friends show up.

I agree. I think it depends a lot on the makeup of the crowd. Lately, the ratio of newbies to regulars at our venues has literally been about 9:1. I will definitely play a different mix of music than if the opposite were the case.

[sonofvu]

[As for your complaints about the music at the Fed, you are DJing that venue tonight. Matt Jones DJs that venue, I do, Jeramie does. You are complaining about something you are a part of, whether it annoys you at times or not.

For the most part, at the Fed, the room notices bad sets and treats really good and mediocre sets as business as usual. When a DJ sucks, the crowd starts to thin, or you hear people complain about the DJ.

I don't want to debate local politics on this board, but it does exemplify the point. There are just as many bad (REALLY bad) DJs as good DJs on Thursday nights. Jeramie dropped out of Thursdays for personal reasons and still DJs on Wednesdays. The best, most experienced DJs on Thursdays are the ONLY DJs on Tuesday and Wednesdays, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays do not draw the crowd due to the night of the week, inertia, etc.

Some crowds notice the difference. But last night was a case in point of a crowd not noticing. I started DJing at 11:00. I received an above-average number of complaints about the prior DJ, a relatively new DJ who had spun for three hours before I got there because the first DJ didn't show. I also reeceived more "thank yous" than usual from the better dancers, even from some who don't quite "like" me, personally. Even you complained, Nathan.

But the room was FULL when I started: he did not chase them away at all. At least 150 dancers. Even I'm not so pompous to think that they stuck around because they knew I was coming to save them.

Again, bad DJs don't ruin a scene. Bad PEOPLE do.

I guess I was that "new" dj on that night. My set consisted mostly of 30's, 40's, and some early 50's stuff. I had very little groove music in my set. I think I played one or two songs from the 60's. The tempos varied from blues to up tempo. I think my average tempo for that set was 150 bpm. Verdict: There were times when the crowd thinned out. To pick things up I had to play Etta Jones and Lou Rawls. That is probalbly why the floor was filled when Lawrence got there. Duds included Andy Kirk, Jimmie Lunceford and Anita O'Day. Stuff that got good reviews: The Duke (of course), Roy Eldridge and Louis Prima for crying out loud. The aforementioned groove stuff was well recieved. I don't think I'm killing the scene but am I headed in that direction? I do not know. Am I a bad DJ? Probably since I'm new. Do I have stuff to work on? Yes. What I have learned is that a DJ needs to heed the dancers. They may dance to the stuff but if the grumbling gets louder then look out. Dancers will vote with their feet. If this continues I will be the first one to step aside.

[Mr Awesomer]

I guess I was that "new" dj on that night. My set consisted mostly of 30's, 40's, and some early 50's stuff. I had very little groove music in my set. I think I played one or two songs from the 60's. The tempos varied from blues to up tempo. I think my average tempo for that set was 150 bpm. Verdict: There were times when the crowd thinned out. To pick things up I had to play Etta Jones and Lou Rawls. That is probalbly why the floor was filled when Lawrence got there. Duds included Andy Kirk, Jimmie Lunceford and Anita O'Day. Stuff that got good reviews: The Duke (of course), Roy Eldridge and Louis Prima for crying out loud. The aforementioned groove stuff was well recieved. I don't think I'm killing the scene but am I headed in that direction? I do not know. Am I a bad DJ? Probably since I'm new. Do I have stuff to work on? Yes. What I have learned is that a DJ needs to heed the dancers. They may dance to the stuff but if the grumbling gets louder then look out. Dancers will vote with their feet. If this continues I will be the first one to step aside.

You're not killing the scene, you're just playing to the wrong one.

[Nate Dogg]

[As for your complaints about the music at the Fed, you are DJing that venue tonight. Matt Jones DJs that venue, I do, Jeramie does. You are complaining about something you are a part of, whether it annoys you at times or not.

For the most part, at the Fed, the room notices bad sets and treats really good and mediocre sets as business as usual. When a DJ sucks, the crowd starts to thin, or you hear people complain about the DJ.

I don't want to debate local politics on this board, but it does exemplify the point. There are just as many bad (REALLY bad) DJs as good DJs on Thursday nights. Jeramie dropped out of Thursdays for personal reasons and still DJs on Wednesdays. The best, most experienced DJs on Thursdays are the ONLY DJs on Tuesday and Wednesdays, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays do not draw the crowd due to the night of the week, inertia, etc.

Some crowds notice the difference. But last night was a case in point of a crowd not noticing. I started DJing at 11:00. I received an above-average number of complaints about the prior DJ, a relatively new DJ who had spun for three hours before I got there because the first DJ didn't show. I also reeceived more "thank yous" than usual from the better dancers, even from some who don't quite "like" me, personally. Even you complained, Nathan.

But the room was FULL when I started: he did not chase them away at all. At least 150 dancers. Even I'm not so pompous to think that they stuck around because they knew I was coming to save them.

Again, bad DJs don't ruin a scene. Bad PEOPLE do.

I guess I was that "new" dj on that night. My set consisted mostly of 30's, 40's, and some early 50's stuff. I had very little groove music in my set. I think I played one or two songs from the 60's. The tempos varied from blues to up tempo. I think my average tempo for that set was 150 bpm. Verdict: There were times when the crowd thinned out. To pick things up I had to play Etta Jones and Lou Rawls. That is probalbly why the floor was filled when Lawrence got there. Duds included Andy Kirk, Jimmie Lunceford and Anita O'Day. Stuff that got good reviews: The Duke (of course), Roy Eldridge and Louis Prima for crying out loud. The aforementioned groove stuff was well recieved. I don't think I'm killing the scene but am I headed in that direction? I do not know. Am I a bad DJ? Probably since I'm new. Do I have stuff to work on? Yes. What I have learned is that a DJ needs to heed the dancers. They may dance to the stuff but if the grumbling gets louder then look out. Dancers will vote with their feet. If this continues I will be the first one to step aside.

1. I wish your particular had not been publically discussed in this forum, that is not fair to you. Any comments should have been made to the Music Coordinator or you personally. Part of the Music Coordinator's job is to listen to people's issues and deal with the DJs one on one.

2. In general, since you started DJing you have broadened the music at the Fed. I don't have an issue with any of the specific songs in your book.

3. I think you are a good DJ, if for no reason on the things you have written and the totality of all your sets, not just the one last week. You seem to want to make the dancers happy. Pushing a musical agenda is not more important than making the dancers happy. There are other DJs will similar music focus who don't share that attitude. I don't appreciate them.

4. Your music flavor has opened things up at the Fed, that is a good thing. I play more classic stuff than ever because of this Board, you, and other factors. Over time, the mix will work even better. However, our town is not going to reject Lou Rawls, etc... anytime soon. Mixing in the token groove stuff gives you the audience goodwill to have other stuff go over better.

[Lawrence]

Chicago's most popular venue "back in the day" (Liquid in 1997-98 ) had the absolutely WORST post-rockabilly, Neo-crap DJ who played the same thing every week. But it was the place to be.

I do think that in the case of Liquid there is something to be said for the taste and experience level scene-wide at that time was not near as developed. Sure, there were outstanding DJs around the city, and Riley ended up holding court at Liquid for a time, but those were the exception and not the rule.

Riley was not the DJ I was referring to: perhaps the years I quoted were off. I was talking about Liquid in the years before you learned to dance during the true peak of the scene, when Liquid was PACKED every Thursday, leading them to make it an all-swing venue. Riley replaced that DJ when the fad subsided and that DJ, ironically, became too expensive for Liquid. In many ways, and despite my resistance to him at the time, Riley was ahead of his time as a DJ.

[Lawrence]

You're not killing the scene, you're just playing to the wrong one.

No one said he was killing the scene; indeed, the point was quite the contrary. The allegedly-murderous DJ was from Florida.

[Mr Awesomer]

No one said he was killing the scene; indeed, the point was quite the contrary. The allegedly-murderous DJ was from Florida.

I don't think I'm killing the scene but am I headed in that direction? I do not know.

Apparently he felt he was being accused of such.

[Roy]

I do not subscirbe to the theory that newbies will dance to anything. I have seen this to not be true. At studioX in Chicago regulars do not show up until 10:30. Sometimes there is a beggining swing class that ends at 9:30 leaving 10-15 beginners in the room for an hour prior to any regular showing up. There are clear preferences to songs with vocals as opposed to instrumentals. They also will not dance to something too fast or too slow, 130-200 seems to be an acceptable range. And, there is a clear preference for late R&B from the late 40's and early 50's over any big band style music. When I play the early R&B they all dance. When I play the big band, any big band, even something as familiar as Glenn Miller there will not be as many dancers.