DJ skillz a reflection of....

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SirScratchAlot · #1 Post by **SirScratchAlot** » Thu May 22, 2003 12:36 am

DJ skillz a reflection of dancing ability???

I know it's a generalization, but seriously, how many times have you been dissapointed by an individual Dj, only to see them on the floor a couple hours later and they can't dance...I mean seriously cannot keep any time...

there a few DJ's that I know, who are not the best dancers by any means but, they have an uncanny knack for knowing whats good dance music and have become rather popular. still, they are only a minority.

Then it happens again, I hear a Horrible DJ, and see him on the floor struggling , not nessesarily because he is a Beginner, but because he just can't keep time or has any rhythm.

and then how many DJ's just don't dance at all????

so I ask, do they not reflect each other? generally speaking I beleive they do...

mark0tz · #2 Post by **mark0tz** » Thu May 22, 2003 7:38 am

After thinking this over, I don't think it takes dancing prowess to be a stellar or even competent DJ. There are a handful of DJ's that I've seen who are terrible dancers or even non-dancers, but can definitely play some good music for dancers.

Most of the DJ's that I really enjoy, however, also happen to be dancers whose dancing abilities I respect. While I don't think it takes one to be the other, I do think that it usually helps and doesn't hurt.

Above anything, I just think it takes a good ear for music, a compatible (not identical) taste with the general dancing populace, and some effort to organize themselves away from a dance to find the good music.

I'd like to take this one step further and consider how many people who are currently DJ's also consider themselves musicians (either currently or previously in their life)? I think this question also ties itself to the question of why are there more male DJ's than female DJ's. On the whole, the jazz bands that I saw in highschool consisted of a much greater percentage of men than women.

yedancer · #3 Post by **yedancer** » Thu May 22, 2003 8:27 am

I've found that as I've become a better dancer, I've become a better DJ. At least, I like to tell myself that.

SirScratchAlot · #4 Post by **SirScratchAlot** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:06 am

mark0tz wrote:After thinking this over, I don't think it takes dancing prowess to be a stellar or even competent DJ. There are a handful of DJ's that I've seen who are terrible dancers or even non-dancers, but can definitely play some good music for dancers.

Most of the DJ's that I really enjoy, however, also happen to be dancers whose dancing abilities I respect. While I don't think it takes one to be the other, I do think that it usually helps and doesn't hurt.

Above anything, I just think it takes a good ear for music, a compatible (not identical) taste with the general dancing populace, and some effort to organize themselves away from a dance to find the good music.

I'd like to take this one step further and consider how many people who are currently DJ's also consider themselves musicians (either currently or previously in their life)? I think this question also ties itself to the question of why are there more male DJ's than female DJ's. On the whole, the jazz bands that I saw in highschool consisted of a much greater percentage of men than women.

I would have to agree, with basically everything you said.

I must also state, while some of the better Dancers might hace a Better ear for music, they sometimes tend to over Look what the beginners want to hear.
But like earlier posted , it's a generalizataion....

mark0tz · #5 Post by **mark0tz** » Fri May 23, 2003 7:42 am

Ya, good point. A DJ who's also an experienced swing dancer will recognize the difference in songs that make them more suitable for beginners or more advanced dancers. A non-dancer DJ would have to learn this through talking with the dancers themselves, instructors, or other DJ's.

Roy · #6 Post by **Roy** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:29 am

My experience is a good DJ for Lindy Hoppers is himself at least a semi-experienced Lindy Hopper. DJ's who do not know how to Lindy Hop either don't know what music Lindy Hoppers like or play only off of a set list provided to them by a Lindy Hopper.

This experience comes from watching the Orlando and Tampa scenes change from East Coast swing to a Lindy hop scene. The DJ's for ECSers liked tended to be the ones the Lindy Hoppers disliked.

There is a few exceptions DJPJ out of Orlando was a DJ who had a huge collecion of swing era stuff. The Lindy Hoppers liked him better then other Orlando DJ's but he still didn't know exactly what to play for Lnidy Hoppers. He tended to stick with the sweet sounding big band stuff. One time when I went back and visited Florida I noticed that he was heavily playing the sweet stuff and all of the Lindy Hoppers were sitting out song after song. I walked up and said did you notice all the Lindy Hoppers sitting out all the songs. And he said yes. I said you have been playing all sweet stuff, play any black big band, any song, and the should all be dancing. He played Jimmy Lunceford and everyone of them was up and dancing.

mark0tz · #7 Post by **mark0tz** » Fri May 23, 2003 10:45 am

Sorry, this argument doesn't fly with me because I don't recognize the categorization of Music into "Lindy music", "East Coast Swing music", and so on. If we want to create these labels, that's fine, but we need to be clear about what they are and what actual recognized musical genres they include.

"Lindy Music" includes Swing Era music first and foremost. However, it also can and should include other music that swings:
- the post-war era - Harry James, Krupa, Ellington, Basie.
- current stuff like Mora's, George Gee, Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra and so on.
- Jump Blues like Tiny Bradshaw, Louis Jordan, Buddy Johnson.
- Boogie Woogie music like Pinetop Perkins, Big Joe Turner.
- Dixieland music like Louis Armstrong, Sidney Bichet.
- Jive like Cab Calloway, Slim Gaillard, Fats Waller.
- ... amongst others

Now, you go to a certain venue and they may just play certan genres of music and exclude other ones. That's great. Certain crowds respond well to certain kinds of music. One ECS venue here responds great to Jump Blues, R&B, Retro Swing and Jive but Dixieland, Boogie Woogie, and Big Band Swing will clear the floor. Another Swing venue will respond very well to Swing Era Music and Boogie Woogie, but not so much to Retro Swing or R&B. Different strokes for different folks.

When it comes to Lindy Hop, I still think you can have different factions of people doing Lindy Hop and responding to different music. One venue in our area that has taught Lindy Hop for years and continues to certainly plays different music than another that has taught Lindy Hop for just as long if not longer. Fact is, not all Lindy Hoppers are alike in their tastes of music. All people who love Swing Era music are similar in their tastes, and they'll gravitate to certain venues and events that cater to their wants and desires.

Roy · #8 Post by **Roy** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:05 pm

Oh yeah well how about the ECSers in Florida who like RAB and Neo? These DJ's like RAB and Neo, they couldn't tell you one darn thing about Jazz, except they have a few big band cd's.

No there is not Lindy Hop music, but there certianly is music Lindy Hoppers prefer.

I also disagree when a DJ plays Glenn Miller, Andrew sister, Guy Lombardo and other sweet or pop stuff from the 40's. I don't know very many Lindy Hoppers who like it. But, it can and does fill a floor for ECSers.

I think you disagree because you are already cutting out music that many ECSers dance to around the county and include only stuff that most Lindy Hoppers dance too.

Roy · #9 Post by **Roy** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:09 pm

So Markotz, please name 1 good DJ who is popular with Lindy Hoppers who does not Lindy Hop? I'm curious because I don't know of any.

Roy · #10 Post by **Roy** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:15 pm

I had to think long about this one, but actually I do know of one DJ, who was popular in Florida with some Lindy Hoppers and did not himself Lindy Hop. He played allot of Artie Shaw his name was Steve from Tampa. I do not think he DJ's anymore.

But I think it is real rare. In most case DJ's that are popular with Lindy Hoppers are themselves Lindy Hoppers.

GemZombie · #11 Post by **GemZombie** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:15 pm

Roy wrote:So Markotz, please name 1 good DJ who is popular with Lindy Hoppers who does not Lindy Hop? I'm curious because I don't know of any.

Bill Elliott played some decent tunes at Camp Hollywood once

heh That was a kind of one-shot deal though I think.

Lawrence · #12 Post by **Lawrence** » Fri May 23, 2003 6:09 pm

Non-Lindy Hoppers don't DJ for Lindy Hoppers because there is no money to be made. Without some other incentive (such as an interest in the dance), they would much rather DJ weddings or corporate parties and make $500-$1000 a night than DJ for $20 (or free), and rightly-so.

There is some corrolation, and I have had a similar epiphany when discovering that a bad Dj can't dance. And I laugh (sometimes only to myself) at the average wedding-gig DJs who think they could DJ a Lindy event out of their collection of Time-Life Swing CDs. I also know that there are some songs that I think are danceable when I listen to them off the floor, I play them at a dance a few times, then finally dance to them, myself, only to realize, "DAMN, this song sucks!"

But there are also too many counterexamples of great dancer/lousy DJs and great DJs/average dancer. Sometimes, a great DJ uses DJing as a way to fulfill his passion for the dance/music when he can't do it on the dance floor.

SirScratchAlot · #13 Post by **SirScratchAlot** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:49 am

ok, but what if you where at dance, and you needed a DJ real quick and you handed your CD's over to...

A: one of the Best dancers in the room and said, here take my CD's and spin awhile....

B: one of the worst dancers in the room and said, here take my CD's and spin awhile....

I'm sure the results would be dramatic. Not in the song selection cause it's all good stuff, but in the order it was played, the flow if you will....

Reading the room, in the particular City and being able to form a mood, instead of going against it....

Lawrence · #14 Post by **Lawrence** » Mon May 26, 2003 7:15 pm

SirScratchAlot wrote:ok, but what if you where at dance, and you needed a DJ real quick and you handed your CD's over to...

A: one of the Best dancers in the room and said, here take my CD's and spin awhile....

B: one of the worst dancers in the room and said, here take my CD's and spin awhile....

Sorry to irrelevantly undermine the hypo instead of answer the question, but I have that scenario covered with several different mixes ready to go if I absolutely NEEDED to leave the room and no other DJ were available.

Of course the better dancer would presumably do a better job, all other things being equal. But there is not a 100% corrolation between good DJing and good dancing. The better dancer would only make it MORE LIKELY that he wouldn't screw up, not guarantee that he won't. That probability also would not negate the fact that a bad dancer could have done a better job or that the better dancer could totally screw it up, himself.

SirScratchAlot · #15 Post by **SirScratchAlot** » Tue May 27, 2003 3:37 am

Lawrence wrote:
SirScratchAlot wrote:ok, but what if you where at dance, and you needed a DJ real quick and you handed your CD's over to...

A: one of the Best dancers in the room and said, here take my CD's and spin awhile....

B: one of the worst dancers in the room and said, here take my CD's and spin awhile....
Sorry to irrelevantly undermine the hypo instead of answer the question, but I have that scenario covered with several different mixes ready to go if I absolutely NEEDED to leave the room and no other DJ were available.

Of course the better dancer would presumably do a better job, all other things being equal. But there is not a 100% corrolation between good DJing and good dancing. The better dancer would only make it MORE LIKELY that he wouldn't screw up, not guarantee that he won't. That probability also would not negate the fact that a bad dancer could have done a better job or that the better dancer could totally screw it up, himself.

Awesome man, you are prepaid for all things. I have a couple CD's ready to go as well.

Like I stated before this is totaly generalizing. there is never 100% even with a good DJ!

while bad dancers who DJ tend to forget the Better dancers on the floor, the Good dancers who DJ tend to forget about the beginners.

The thing is this, while it is important to keep as many dancers as possible, the percentages show that it;s the better dancers who will continue dancing, while only a smaller percentage of the beginners will continue dancing. Then again, what is beginner music? slower music, I think not...beginner music is all music...