SwingDJs

Hi,

I'm just starting to DJ, and have a question about preparing high sound quality mix CDs. I have a lot of CDs, and an iMac G5 with iTunes. I also have some individual tracks which I have purchased via the iTunes Music Store and other online sites. I rip my favourite tracks to iTunes, and sometimes burn my own mix CDs from iTunes.

I will be Djing using CD decks (probably Stanton or Pioneer). I want to prepare about 10 mix CDs containing my favourite tracks. I plan to do this in iTunes, and print out neat track listings including BPM information which I have added using a beat counter.

The question is, how do I produce mix CDs at the highest sound quality for Djing? As I understand it, when I rip a track from a CD to iTunes, it reduces the file size and converts it to a format such as AAC or mp3. Then, when I burn a CD, the file size expands back to CD audio size, but the quality remains at the lower level. In other words, the track on the mix CD will be worse sound quality than the original.

Is there any way of creating my own mix CDS with no loss of quality? If so, how do I do this? Can I do it in iTunes, or in some other way using my iMac? Any other tips?

I'm sure a Mac user will chime in with specific software recommendations but as far as ripping, you basically want the data uncompressed and if possible error-corrected. I use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) on my windows box to rip to "wav" files (basically the same stuff as on the CD). These files can then be burned to disc without loss.

As far as downloaded MP3's or AAC's, just burn them to CD. They've already lost all the quality they're going to when they were compressed.

Toon Town Dave wrote:I'm sure a Mac user will chime in with specific software recommendations but as far as ripping, you basically want the data uncompressed and if possible error-corrected. I use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) on my windows box to rip to "wav" files (basically the same stuff as on the CD). These files can then be burned to disc without loss.

As far as downloaded MP3's or AAC's, just burn them to CD. They've already lost all the quality they're going to when they were compressed.

That's the same approach i use. An alternative would be to rip to flac or the apple lossless format which would give you some compression without loss of quality (file size is about 1/4 to 1/3 of wave). I have not tried the apple lossless format although it has received good reviews. I decided to go with flac since it was non-proprietary. I'm not sure if itunes plays flac but there are some tools for flac on the mac and vlc will play flac. I'd be interested too in hearing what tools people are using on the mac since i have not found as many comparable to those i use on my pc. But i think there might be more that run in Terminal or X11.

I'd be curious what linux/unix folks are using too. My 'doze box it reaching the end of it's half-life and I'd like to switch to linux for my primary desktop OS.

There are some interesting tools on http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html
I know Iain used to use XMMS and some of the other players come bundled on various linux livecds.

Thanks for the replies everyone

huey wrote:I also have some individual tracks which I have purchased via the iTunes Music Store and other online sites.

These tracks will never be in the realm of "high quality" no matter what you do. One of the rmany easons I don't bother buying music via online music stores.

GuruReuben wrote:

huey wrote:I also have some individual tracks which I have purchased via the iTunes Music Store and other online sites.

These tracks will never be in the realm of "high quality" no matter what you do. One of the rmany easons I don't bother buying music via online music stores.

Amen!

E-Music was the only place that had a decent bitrate for their music. But they changed their download policy and I had to cancel.

Besides, buying a Proper Box Set is *much* cheaper than iTunes. At 100 songs for $25, iTunes can't compete (assuming they even had half the music I wanted).

GemZombie wrote:

GuruReuben wrote:

huey wrote:I also have some individual tracks which I have purchased via the iTunes Music Store and other online sites.

These tracks will never be in the realm of "high quality" no matter what you do. One of the many easons I don't bother buying music via online music stores.

Amen!

… Besides, buying a Proper Box Set is *much* cheaper than iTunes. At 100 songs for $25, iTunes can't compete (assuming they even had half the music I wanted).

Ironically, I recently bought 'The Count Basie Story' [BOX SET] on Proper Records
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000059RI2

And also bought a few individual Count Basie tracks from this album on the UK iTunes Music Store …

'Listen My Children You Shall Hear'
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000050XFS

The tracks I bought via the iTunes Store sound noticeably better than those on the Proper Box Set. An example is ‘One O’Clock Jump’

huey wrote: The tracks I bought via the iTunes Store sound noticeably better than those on the Proper Box Set. An example is ‘One O’Clock Jump’

I still doubt. There must be a hundred versions of One O'Clock Jump recording by Basie himself. In fact, the Proper Box Set has two itself.

Are you telling me that it's the same exact version that you downloaded on iTunes than is on the box set, and that the quality is better?

If it's a different version, it's likely it was recorded later and has a better "sound"... however, the quality *is not* better... the iTunes version will be compressed, versus the CD that will obviously not be. Even the MP3's i encode (VBR high), will be better quality than any iTunes compressions.

So ya, defend your iTunes purchases all you want, but seriously, accept the fact that audio compressions (lossy) are going to be worse than the CD, all other things being equal.

Are the compression settings for iTunes, Napster2.0, Rhapsody and the like published?

Is there documentation to support that a VBR Lame MP3 song sounds better than a compressed <insert online music service here> song? I guess you can do your own sound tests on a song by song basis - but sensitive audiofiles would probably differ in opinion.

I also wonder if the online music services do any modern processing on older tracks before they get compressed for sale. In that case in theory it's possible that the online version could sound better than the CD.

The most unbias result would be to compare the decompressed online track with the identical recording from CD. This is basically how telephony equipment is tested, some recording or signal is transmitted and compared to the undistorted original, it's called PESQ (Perceptual Evaluation of Speech Quality) testing. I'm not sure if there is any free/open source software to do this, I've only played with expensive commercial stuff. Most of the tools are geared toward voice but the principle should be applicable to music.

The other type of test is MOS (mean opinion score) which is basically people ranking the perceived quality. It's very subjective and doesnt require a pristine reference.

In the case of say iTunes versus CD, there is no question that the quality is less (the very definition of lossy). The question is how much it affects the perceived quality.

GemZombie wrote:

huey wrote: The tracks I bought via the iTunes Store sound noticeably better than those on the Proper Box Set. An example is ‘One O’Clock Jump’

Are you telling me that it's the same exact version that you downloaded on iTunes than is on the box set, and that the quality is better?

If it's a different version, it's likely it was recorded later and has a better "sound"...

It's not the same exact version, as they are from different CDs. It seems to me that the tracks on 'Listen My Children You Shall Hear'
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005 ... 14-8984832

sound much better than those on 'The Count Basie Story' [BOX SET] on Proper Records
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005 ... 14-8984832

I'm looking for good quality sound, and in this respect, I think I've had much better value from the 3 or 4 tracks I've downloaded from the iTunes Store from 'Listen My Children You Shall Hear' than I have from the Proper 'The Count Basie Story' 4 CD box set. I haven't analysed whether they are different recordings, or the same recording with better remastering/processing - does anybody know the reason they sound better?

JohnDyer wrote:I also wonder if the online music services do any modern processing on older tracks before they get compressed for sale. In that case in theory it's possible that the online version could sound better than the CD.

That's a good question. I also think that because they are aware of the effects of audio compression, they might be more selective about the quality of the tracks they make available than CD retailers.