Swing DJ’s role (if any) in promoting live Jazz.

[Bob the Builder]

Swing DJ’s role (if any) in promoting live Jazz.
In many local scenes over the past few years, I’ve seen a huge increase in role put on DJed social events, to an extent where in some scenes the amount dancers attending live jazz gigs is very low in comparison to the number of dancers in the scene.
Now, of us Swing DJ’s that have our heads screwed on, know a good band will be better than a good DJ any day. The irony is that we the “swing DJ’s” are the ones that are if anything helping this initial problem.
So, do you think there is anyway in which Swing DJ’s (could, and maybe should) encourage dancers to start to head back to live gigs?

Brian

[Haydn]

Swing DJ’s role (if any) in promoting live Jazz.
In many local scenes over the past few years, I’ve seen a huge increase in role put on DJed social events, to an extent where in some scenes the amount dancers attending live jazz gigs is very low in comparison to the number of dancers in the scene.
Now, of us Swing DJ’s that have our heads screwed on, know a good band will be better than a good DJ any day. The irony is that we the “swing DJ’s” are the ones that are if anything helping this initial problem.
So, do you think there is anyway in which Swing DJ’s (could, and maybe should) encourage dancers to start to head back to live gigs?

Brian

I have found it's quite hard to find bands that are good to dance to (it seems that many bands just aren't used to playing at dances). I agree that there's a special feeling you get dancing to a really good live band (rather than a DJ). Word of mouth is probably an effective way to promote the better bands to dancers.

[CafeSavoy]

http://jellyrollproductions.org/

[fredo]

"I’ve seen a huge increase in role put on DJed social events"

I guess I'm unclear what you mean by this. How has the role of DJs increased? and over what time period? I realize it's increased since the days of old, but I'm assuming you are talking about more recent times.

I think the role of promoting live jazz at dances is in the hands of the dance organizers, not the DJs. Like Haydn mentioned, DJs can use word of mouth to spread news about live bands to dance to, but they aren't the ones booking them.

As a DJ and a dance organizer, I book DJs at my dances until I can save enough money to hire a band. It would be sweet if I had a benefactor that could pay for me to have live music each time I had my dance, but so far that hasn't happened. Bands can cost a fair amount of dough (which they deserve, if they're good) but with many of todays dances happening at smaller venues and dance studios you'd have to charge more than the average dancer is use to spending on a night of dancing. They will shell out $10-15 for a special night, but not on a regular basis, especially if they are use to only paying $5 at the DJed dances.

So for now I can only hire a band every couple of months or so. sucks, but thats how it works for the small time dance organizer.

Bob, you bring up a great topic though. I'd love to hear more discussion about it.

[dogpossum]

I try to play music by local (and contemporary) artists when I'm DJing - and I make sure I tell people what I'm playing (by posting my set lists on our Australian Swing Talk discussion board, mentioning that a song is by a local artist when people ask, etc).
I'm a fan of old scratchy stuff, so it can be a bit trickier to squeeze in something new - the band has to actually be producing the type of music I like to DJ for me to play them in my set. But I regularly play songs by the Rhythmakers, for example, because they're doing the sort of stuff local dancers really dig.

I also pimp Melbourne bands to my DJ buddies interstate.

[djstarr]

I think it is natural to serve as a liaison. I'm not an organizer, but since I'm hired by people who are, I can put the bands in touch with the organizers and help recommend them etc. I also have some influence when working on exchange commitees etc., then I'm able to book the bands directly.

[Lawrence]

As for your initial premise, the problem is that Lindy Hoppers are cheapskate vagabonds and won't pay the premium necessary for live music. Many Swing DJs will DJ for free, others for a pittance. Compare that to several hundred dollars (minimum) for a decent live band, and you see why dance organizers lean toward DJs for weekly dance gigs.

I tried hosting live music when I had a weekly venue. The live music gigs increased attendance only slightly--nowhere close to the amount necessary to justify the increased cost, no less the extra effort in getting the bands signed, setting up, and breaking down. I lost money on live gigs and broke even on DJ gigs. I even reunited the Texas Trumpets, which played the Austin Lindy Exchange to rave reviews, and charged only $5. Still not much of a response over the weekly DJ'ed gigs; most people preferred waiting to go out until the FOLLOWING night (not even the same night) when they could dance for only $2 to DJ music!!

I was even willing to take the financial hit and lose money on live gigis to support the musicians and "give back" to the Lindy Hop community. I ended up feeling somewhat betrayed/let down by the Lindy community for sticking my neck out with little response.

[Toon Town Dave]

I've seen a bit of a dichotemy among Lindy Hoppers, some prefer live while some prefer DJ'd and a lot are on the fence.

Lawrence, quick tangential question; when you did live music, what what the venue like? Was it s studio/gym/dry hall event or was it a bar/club/licensed event?

In terms of the original question, I don't think DJ's have any obligation to promote live music. For a paid DJ who does it for a living, it would be silly because live music in lieu of DJs would undermine your income. I do think DJ's should (but not to the extent of an obligation) promote the music we like (live or recorded).

I'm a live music fan. I prefer to dance to live music and I prefer to listen to live music. As an organizer, I see live music as an opportunity to provide a comfortable environment for newbies who are new to the dance but don't yet have the confidence of more experience dancers to still have a great time at an event even though they may not dance much. I also see live music as a gateway between non-dancers and dance events.

To me, recorded music is always the 2nd best choice when live music is inaccessible or cost prohibitive. If you're not dancing to it, it's just backround noise and adds nothing to the experience for non-dancers and not yet confident newbies.

I also don't buy the argument that live music is too expensive for dancers. In many places there is plenty of opportunity to dance to live music at non-dance events, often for free or minimal cover charge. Dancers can be too picky.

[Eyeball]

the problem is that Lindy Hoppers are cheapskate vagabonds.....

I ended up feeling somewhat betrayed/let down by the Lindy community for sticking my neck out with little response.

That's a snappy turn of a phrase.

[Lawrence]

Lawrence, quick tangential question; when you did live music, what what the venue like? Was it s studio/gym/dry hall event or was it a bar/club/licensed event?

It was in a small ballroom (about 200 square feet) in an old mansion, with nice, slidy wood floors.

I also don't buy the argument that live music is too expensive for dancers. In many places there is plenty of opportunity to dance to live music at non-dance events, often for free or minimal cover charge. Dancers can be too picky.

If you mean that it shouldn't be too expensive for dancers because dancers should be willing to pay the premium, then you are correct. But if you are saying that there are ways to dance cheaply to live music, then you are essentially saying that bands should play for pittances or you are condoning dancers being parasites at free or cheap gigs. Many of those "free" gigs are promotional or rehearsals for the musicians. They deserve to be paid for "real" gigs, and if we want them to play danceable music for us, then we should be willing to pay the premium for them to do it. The problem is that dancers are mostly far too cheap to pay for live music.

[fredo]

It was in a small ballroom (about 200 square feet)

It's hard to imagine how a dance in a space the size of a living room would not be successful.

[Lawrence]

It was in a small ballroom (about 200 square feet)

It's hard to imagine how a dance in a space the size of a living room would not be successful.

Left off a Zero. 2000.

[Greg Avakian]

I think that, as DJs, we often know more about good bands than anyone else in our communities.

For that reason, when the Philly exchange committee (which I am not a part of) couldn't get Ray Bryant, I suggested Wycliffe Gordon -who they have contracted to play. I was also the person who suggested Ray Bryant. While I'm glad I was able to help out, I am disappointed to say that none of them really knows who Wycliffe is; they are just trusting me.

As a jazz fan, I have found plenty of great old jazz musicians in Philly that I would love to see play for dancers. However, I have yet to convince any of the people who organize local dances, or make the decisions about who to hire for our exchange, to come and see these great (and local!) musicians.

Overall, I suspect we are concerned about live music than most of the dancers we serve. Have other DJs found themselves as frustrated by the local music scene (at dances) as I have?

PS:
Yay Jellyroll Productions! I love going to their events!

[DJ_SweetMarie]

Here in Chicago, we have plenty of great jazz musicians -- and almost enough good swing-jazz groups. People seem to be willing to pay extra to dance to live music, as long as there's not more than one or two such gigs per week. A $10 cover for a deejayed event can be a hard sell on a week night, but folks will gladly pay $15 on a weekend night to dance to a great live band. I think people will continue to be price sensitive in the present economic situation, so keeping down the cover during the week is important.

Unless you want to be stuck playing the same stuff from dance to dance, year to year, and don't mind never getting anything new, you really do want to actively promote live jazz -- particularly the musicians who play swing, but not exclusively. without jazz, no swing; without new music, everything gets stale. So I always have an ear out for new bands and new recorded music, including from groups that may not be considered swing per se, and listen to see if one or two of their cuts will do for slipping into an otherwise pretty straighforward swing set.

Promoting live jazz, however, doesn't mean you have live music at every gig: it simply means you have live music every so often, depending on circumstances, but you always encourage people to go out and **hear** live music in between. If swing dancers go out to a jazz club and actually listen to and support bands that make them tap their feet and want to dance, they're more likely to support dances that feature live music.

And no, I don't consider that promoting myself out of a job: I consider that part of the job -- meaning, educating dancers about what's out there and getting them to have a real appreciation of the music. Call it a sleeper educational component. But then, I'm a jazz fan from Way Back When and think more people should be. Jazz and swing dance are intertwined. Whatever encourages folks to listen to swinging jazz also eventually attracts them to swing dancing as well. If I get just one new person per gig to listen to something new and get turned on to the music, I've done my job. But then, I live in Chicago, and we like our jazz ...

[caab]

There's something intangible about dancing to a live band that can't compete with DJ'ed music. Of course the band must be good, but when it's good it's REALLY good, and I don't get that feeling from a DJ'd dance. When a good band comes into town I'll definitely spread the word.

I'm marrying a jazz musician, so I certainly hope dancers will continue to be willing to pay to dance to live music. Otherwise, I'll become one of those vagabond Lindy Hoppers this thread keeps talking about.

This year I took the next step and went from dancer/DJ to performer. I'm singing in a band called the Atomic Rhythm All Stars (insert shameless self-promotion here), which I sort of fell into because of my boy, who plays in the band, and because I was in the right place at the right time when another vocalist's audition went awry. Being a part of a band absolutely means that I promote live music, as well as DJ'd music, so either way I have an amazingly fun job for the dance.

Being able to share these recordings from the past, as well as recreate this music from the past and share it with others...it's like being on both sides of the fence, no?

True, right now the DJ gigs outnumber the band gigs, but I don't know if that will change. If it does, it will probably be a result of band gigs for non-dancers, while my DJ gigs would remain for dancers.