Thaere is a discussion on Yehoodi about what defines swing music and some thought being given to swung eighths and driving rhythm. i thought it might be fun to discuss some of this stuff here since we probably all know or have a bunch of versions of the same songs.
I know this could turn into a big arguement, but hopefully we can all learn something by listening to others' perspective on what they hear in a piece of music. Here's an idea of what I'm talking about:
Benny Goodman's Exactly like you: pretty straight eighths, swings
Bill Coleman's Exactly like you: slightly swung eighths, swings
Django Rhinehart's Exactly like you: more swung eighths, doesn't really swing
Carmen McCrae's Exactly like you: swung eighths, kicks swing butt
Comments?
Does it swing???
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Greg Avakian
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Mr Awesomer
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Lot's of shit swings.
And you can read the above many different ways.
And you can read the above many different ways.
Reuben Brown
Southern California
Southern California
Not this again.
The only way "swings" has any real meaning is if it describes a song with swinging eights. A song either has them or it doesn't and its not opinion.
Unfortunately, plenty of people, including musicians, use it to mean "I like it!", "makes me want to move!" or "its great!" Yeah, go ahead and use it that way if you want, but it doesn't mean anything other than an opinion.
I like to use it as follows: "Brian Setzer's music swings, but it sucks."
The only way "swings" has any real meaning is if it describes a song with swinging eights. A song either has them or it doesn't and its not opinion.
Unfortunately, plenty of people, including musicians, use it to mean "I like it!", "makes me want to move!" or "its great!" Yeah, go ahead and use it that way if you want, but it doesn't mean anything other than an opinion.
I like to use it as follows: "Brian Setzer's music swings, but it sucks."
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Greg Avakian
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Greg Avakian
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Greg Avakian
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Greg Avakian
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There must be something in the air I was re-reading part of Jazz Dance that talked about this.
Swing is something that is felt and pervasive in many forms of jazz, yet there is no simple way to describe it in analytical terms. Every atempt falls short of the goal.
It's a matter of interpritation. For some it's anything with with a steady 4/4 time (I like to term this music with swing feel, but not really swing music. That's just my opinion though.). For others it's got to be jazz with it's tension and realease, propulsive rhythms and syncapations. (To me this is swing.) Then there are all the other stops inbetween.
Where ever your definition ends up it's always good to reevaluate and look and different definitions and learn more about the music.
-Kevin
Seattle
Swing is something that is felt and pervasive in many forms of jazz, yet there is no simple way to describe it in analytical terms. Every atempt falls short of the goal.
It's a matter of interpritation. For some it's anything with with a steady 4/4 time (I like to term this music with swing feel, but not really swing music. That's just my opinion though.). For others it's got to be jazz with it's tension and realease, propulsive rhythms and syncapations. (To me this is swing.) Then there are all the other stops inbetween.
Where ever your definition ends up it's always good to reevaluate and look and different definitions and learn more about the music.
-Kevin
Seattle
"We called it music."
— Eddie Condon
— Eddie Condon
I guess since this thread was inspired by Yehoodi, it can behave like other threads of its ilk.
Group A - States the strict definition. Of course, they are correct.
Group B - Those who are willing to accept that a term may have evolved to have multiple meanings and are generally less dogmatic in their views.
The two sides bicker.
This basic dynamic is repeated over and over again, on all sorts of topics (see that Lindy Exchange Gripe thread on Yehoodi for a good example).
Personally, I fall into Group B. Yes, a lot of so-called swing music is not technically swing music. On the other hand, a lot of dancers don't know or don't care. They care about whether it sucks or not, whether it fits in, etc ...
Group A - States the strict definition. Of course, they are correct.
Group B - Those who are willing to accept that a term may have evolved to have multiple meanings and are generally less dogmatic in their views.
The two sides bicker.
This basic dynamic is repeated over and over again, on all sorts of topics (see that Lindy Exchange Gripe thread on Yehoodi for a good example).
Personally, I fall into Group B. Yes, a lot of so-called swing music is not technically swing music. On the other hand, a lot of dancers don't know or don't care. They care about whether it sucks or not, whether it fits in, etc ...