ECS/Lindy/WCS - Bridging the Gap

[CafeSavoy]

but it's also an excuse to be lazy and not play for your crowd.

You could DJ anywhere and be a "try to please everyone DJ" or you can be a niche DJ and most likely be brought to a group of people who are really into and excited about the kind of music you play.

it also strikes me as kind of sad that classic swing is considered a "niche" when it comes to a "swing dj"

are you saying that a dj shouldn't pick music to make the crowd dance? are you also saying that if what you are playing isn't working (e.g., empty floor during two sets), you shouldn't adjust what you are playing? regardless of what music you choose to play, you should be playing for the dancers.

p.s. the niche terminology was not mine. i guessing on the percieved niche based on the song list.

[falty411]

are you saying that a dj shouldn't pick music to make the crowd dance? are you also saying that if what you are playing isn't working (e.g., empty floor during two sets), you shouldn't adjust what you are playing? regardless of what music you choose to play, you should be playing for the dancers.

wow you must be really bored cause you read A LOT into that.

I didn't say, nor was I alluding to anything you think I said.

What I said is Niche DJs usually arent hired to DJ a "allkinds of dancers" events. Like when you DJ at k2, even though it is a lindy hop night, there is plenty of West Coast Swing and other Miscellaneous music to help please everyone (which so you know, you can never please everyone). Niche DJs are usually hired to play where their niche is LOVED. Like the DJs hired for SHowdown VS. the DJs hired for something like US Open.

[kitkat]

are you also saying that if what you are playing isn't working (e.g., empty floor during two sets), you shouldn't adjust what you are playing?

Rayned, just because my set was pretty strict within a certain genre doesn't mean I wasn't making an effort to keep dancers on the floor. I rejected a lot of tunes I loved, listened to, and thought, "Nah, that'll just kill it even more with this crowd." I tried to avoid getting defensive, but I just don't like the implication that because I (and other people who DJ from a single taste) fill the binder 99% with a single type of music, I don't make an effort on the job to choose from that stock of songs based on what I think will increase the number of dancers on the floor.

Also, you really only get one shot per venue, maybe per city, to impose your style on a crowd that doesn't like it. I don't think that's too much damage done to the pleasure of dancers in the long run. Either they discover something new and decide they like it too, or you get a reputation there and don't get invited back. So what (from both a DJ & floor perspective)?

[CafeSavoy]

wow you must be really bored cause you read A LOT into that.

I didn't say, nor was I alluding to anything you think I said.

What I said is Niche DJs usually arent hired to DJ a "allkinds of dancers" events. Like when you DJ at k2, even though it is a lindy hop night, there is plenty of West Coast Swing and other Miscellaneous music to help please everyone (which so you know, you can never please everyone). Niche DJs are usually hired to play where their niche is LOVED. Like the DJs hired for SHowdown VS. the DJs hired for something like US Open.

pardon. that wasn't the impression i got from your post.
besides everyone is a niche dj in that everyone is playing
to a certain crowd. so it isn't whether you play a niche,
but how well you play it. and if you play it really well, you
transcend it. sort of like how art can have local and universal appeal.

[CafeSavoy]

are you also saying that if what you are playing isn't working (e.g., empty floor during two sets), you shouldn't adjust what you are playing?

Rayned, just because my set was pretty strict within a certain genre doesn't mean I wasn't making an effort to keep dancers on the floor. I rejected a lot of tunes I loved, listened to, and thought, "Nah, that'll just kill it even more with this crowd." I tried to avoid getting defensive, but I just don't like the implication that because I (and other people who DJ from a single taste) fill the binder 99% with a single type of music, I don't make an effort on the job to choose from that stock of songs based on what I think will increase the number of dancers on the floor.

Also, you really only get one shot per venue, maybe per city, to impose your style on a crowd that doesn't like it. I don't think that's too much damage done to the pleasure of dancers in the long run. Either they discover something new and decide they like it too, or you get a reputation there and don't get invited back. So what (from both a DJ & floor perspective)?

that question was for mike.

i haven't seen you dj so i can't make any comments on your djing.
except that in general if the floor is mostly clear something isn't working.
either you aren't playing your book well enough, or your book isn't suited
to the crowd. if it's your book, then you have to decide whether you want
to change your book or not do the gig. like i know i couldn't dj rockabilly
and wouldn't want to.

[Petitetonya]

Wow...cool topic.

I think it is so ironic like Mike was mentioning, that playing classic swing (aka lindy hop music) is considered a "niche". I love old music cause it IS lindy hop music. I have been frustrated lately cause I feel like I get pressured to mix in "groove" music (whatever label fits) into my sets here in LA, I would have never been pressured to do this in Seattle so this is new to me. I could easily mix in some gene harris or lou rawls cause I have it in my dj collection, but I feel like I would be selling out. I feel like playing old music is so important in a lindy hop scene, especially if it is a scene that isn't as exposed to it much. Where is the compromise? Why should there be a compromise? Should a dj be allowed to have their own style of djing without being asked to compromise that? Or should a dj always mix it up...but then there is the risk of dj's being the same if everyone plays a little bit of everything. I feel like I really mix up my set a lot...not all old music sounds the same or is the same tempo, so I feel like I am doing a good job keeping variety strong in the genre that I prefer.

AAAACK! This topic has actually been troubling me for a while now...any advice or opinions on this matter would be welcomed.

[djstarr]

Wow...cool topic.

I could easily mix in some gene harris or lou rawls cause I have it in my dj collection, but I feel like I would be selling out.

AAAACK! This topic has actually been troubling me for a while now...any advice or opinions on this matter would be welcomed.

I think you have a great mix of music......I'm reminded of something Greg Avakian said on here somewhere - that you can lure folks into a certain style if you sweeten the pot....I like Gene Harris, and I really love Curtis Stigers (who was a mentee of Gene Harris) - I think you can throw in modern stuff then transition to classic as a way to get people to expand their musical taste. I also think if you pick a couple of classic songs you love and play them everytime you DJ people will start to know them -- the familiar is comfortable to most people.

And Seattle's musical tastes changed dramatically over the past few years due to your influence, so I'm sure you can make a dent in the LA taste.....

[mousethief]

Wow...cool topic.

I think it is so ironic like Mike was mentioning, that playing classic swing (aka lindy hop music) is considered a "niche". I love old music cause it IS lindy hop music. I have been frustrated lately cause I feel like I get pressured to mix in "groove" music (whatever label fits) into my sets here in LA, I would have never been pressured to do this in Seattle so this is new to me. I could easily mix in some gene harris or lou rawls cause I have it in my dj collection, but I feel like I would be selling out. I feel like playing old music is so important in a lindy hop scene, especially if it is a scene that isn't as exposed to it much. Where is the compromise? Why should there be a compromise? Should a dj be allowed to have their own style of djing without being asked to compromise that? Or should a dj always mix it up...but then there is the risk of dj's being the same if everyone plays a little bit of everything. I feel like I really mix up my set a lot...not all old music sounds the same or is the same tempo, so I feel like I am doing a good job keeping variety strong in the genre that I prefer.

AAAACK! This topic has actually been troubling me for a while now...any advice or opinions on this matter would be welcomed.

Well, as an advocate for "Back to Savoy," I have to admit that what I consider to be quality, classic period swing music generally is not what the dancing public considers to be classic. I could play Doggin' Around or Who Ya Hunchin'? and get blank stares, whereas In the Mood will pack the floor every time.

In a nutshell, I think you might have to adjust to your new scene. I guarantee my sets would alter dramatically if I moved to Houston and kept DJing. If you're feeling pressure to add more [insert title here] to your sets, then maybe you're in the wrong venue for your preferred style. Or maybe your style needs to adapt if you want to continue to be a powerful DJ. Without a read of the floor, that's a really tough call to make and it's not mine to make in the first place.

Still, it comes down to knowing your book, as Rayned suggested. You can play a wide mix within a classic set and fill the floor. This, of course, begs the question of DJing to the crowd or DJing within a theme and all that crap.

I do find it annoying when siderooms swing more than the main room at some events. That blows my mind.

Kalman

[Greg Avakian]

I'm finding it difficult to understand that there are people who want to play "their" music more than they want to please a room full of dancers. I'm not saying this is "wrong", just that it's alien to me. Certainly you can do both and so I don't see why this is an issue. (Although, I can see that it might be more OK at a big event where there are many different DJs).

My question is why would you take a gig that you feel bad about DJing at?

As Rayned and Mike have both alluded to: give the gig to someone else! I wouldn't accept a rockabilliy gig because I know I'd just piss people off and they'd go home unhappy. Why would I want to do that to people? Dancers are your friends, so why not act appropriately? When you invite your vegetarian friend out to diner, do you take them to burger king because you like meat?

Sometimes I think people take DJing a little too personally. As if they have to stand up for some ideal that lives in their heads or like they are doing battle against the forces of evil. At whose expense are you proving a point?

Being a DJ means checking your ego at the door. Yes, you are a leader, but you are also a servant.

(edited because I forgot to finish the last line of the first paragragh -sorry if that was confusing).

And Kalaman: your next point is right on the money in any context

[mousethief]

Maybe we should ditch the DJ College and go back to one dancer, one vote?

Kalman

[gatorgal]

Since when did playing what you like become being a "niche" DJ?

In all seriousness, I don't think being identified as playing music from a certain genre or era puts you in a box or makes you less sensitive to the desires of your dancers. Dancers and organizers simply take this into account when they hire you or dance to your set.

Just my two cents...
Tina

[CafeSavoy]

I'm finding it difficult to understand that there are people who want to play "their" music more than they want to please a room full of dancers.

Why would I want to do that to people? Dancers are your friends, so why not act appropriately? When you invite your vegetarian friend out to diner, do you take them to burger king because you like meat?

Sometimes I think people take DJing a little too personally. As if they have to stand up for some ideal that lives in their heads or like they are doing battle against the forces of evil. At whose expense are you proving a point?

Being a DJ means checking your ego at the door. Yes, you are a leader, but you are also a servant.

Great points. Someone mentioned forcing their viewpoints on a unwilling crowd. If you did that on a date you might have legal trouble. DJing is just like every other human interaction, no one likes to be forced or imposed upon. Even if you want to change viewpoints, it's more successful as a seduction.

And the whole question of being true to a niche hinges on how you define your niche. By classic swing do you mean only fast big band from 19xx to 19yy where both xx and yy <= 40-something, or are you including all the swing/jazz music from that era? Or are you willing to include modern works played in that style? Or would you include modern works by giants of jazz who spanned the 20th century? How you define yourself will influence how you can play for a modern crowd without playing "lou rawls." Is playing Ellington "Wings and Things" selling out? How about something from Henry "Red" Allen's 50's recordings with Coleman Hawkins, Buster Bailey, JC Higginbotham, and Cozy Cole? How about Basie's "Red Wagon" from the Decca set? Or something from the 40's but after the war?

To borrow from biology, you can be adaptable without changing your spots. Look at the leopard, is it any less a leopard when it's a black panther or a white ounce? When it's living in the mountains, or the dessert, and the not the jungle? And contrast the leopard which is still around with the cheetah which is very specialized and narrowly so and fast becoming extinct in nature because of loss of habitat.

[gatorgal]

Sometimes I think people take DJing a little too personally. As if they have to stand up for some ideal that lives in their heads or like they are doing battle against the forces of evil.

Does this mean I get a neat outfit and some mutant powers?

Tina

[mousethief]

Sometimes I think people take DJing a little too personally. As if they have to stand up for some ideal that lives in their heads or like they are doing battle against the forces of evil.

I am the force(s) of Evil... just ask Phlurg.

Kalman

[Greg Avakian]

Since when did playing what you like become being a "niche" DJ?

Niche:
A situation or activity specially suited to a person's interests, abilities, or nature.
A special area of demand for a product or service.

(Dictionary.com)

So a niche is a niche -whether or not it's cool, popular, authentic, etc.